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Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion

04-07-2011 , 01:55 AM
    Poker Stars, $100 Buy-in (50/100 blinds, 10 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8796502

    MP3: 1,465 (14.7 bb)
    CO: 2,835 (28.4 bb)
    BTN: 1,595 (16 bb)
    SB: 1,170 (11.7 bb)
    Hero (BB): 2,450 (24.5 bb)
    UTG+2: 2,610 (26.1 bb)
    MP1: 1,595 (16 bb)
    MP2: 1,280 (12.8 bb)

    Preflop: (80) Hero is BB with A 2
    5 folds, BTN raises to 1,500, SB folds




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    Villan is a new 13/10 guy. With a normal player this is a fold , but this villan steal too much from Button and SB .

    So , based in that reads , what range could have ?
    Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
    04-07-2011 , 02:02 AM
      Poker Stars, $100 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8796512

      CO: 4,220 (21.1 bb)
      BTN: 2,140 (10.7 bb)
      SB: 2,124 (10.6 bb)
      Hero (BB): 2,925 (14.6 bb)
      UTG: 1,450 (7.3 bb)
      MP: 2,141 (10.7 bb)

      Preflop: (150) Hero is BB with K J
      4 folds, SB raises to 2,099 and is all-in, Hero ?




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      Villan is the bigest stealer in the world , Is he pushing atc here?
      Is worth the risk of calling a very probably 60/40 having a short with 1,450 ?
      Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
      04-07-2011 , 02:42 AM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by MrTynKyn
        Poker Stars, $100 Buy-in (50/100 blinds, 10 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8796502

        MP3: 1,465 (14.7 bb)
        CO: 2,835 (28.4 bb)
        BTN: 1,595 (16 bb)
        SB: 1,170 (11.7 bb)
        Hero (BB): 2,450 (24.5 bb)
        UTG+2: 2,610 (26.1 bb)
        MP1: 1,595 (16 bb)
        MP2: 1,280 (12.8 bb)

        Preflop: (80) Hero is BB with A 2
        5 folds, BTN raises to 1,500, SB folds




        Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


        Villan is a new 13/10 guy. With a normal player this is a fold , but this villan steal too much from Button and SB .

        So , based in that reads , what range could have ?
        If villain is actually pushing as loose as Nash says here(38.8%) you can call with 55+,A6s+,A8o+,KTs+,KQo. I doubt even the villain you describe is pushing this loose in this spot though.

        As for calling with A2o villain would have to be pushing more than about 64%
        Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
        04-07-2011 , 02:53 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by MrTynKyn
          Poker Stars, $100 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8796512

          CO: 4,220 (21.1 bb)
          BTN: 2,140 (10.7 bb)
          SB: 2,124 (10.6 bb)
          Hero (BB): 2,925 (14.6 bb)
          UTG: 1,450 (7.3 bb)
          MP: 2,141 (10.7 bb)

          Preflop: (150) Hero is BB with K J
          4 folds, SB raises to 2,099 and is all-in, Hero ?




          Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


          Villan is the bigest stealer in the world , Is he pushing atc here?
          Is worth the risk of calling a very probably 60/40 having a short with 1,450 ?
          Nash says villain push 59% BB should call with 22.9% means KJ easy call.
          "Biggest stealer in the world' might push even wider and even with ATC making this even bigger call. Presence of fairly short stack is in my opinion secondary since this is not a close decision based on ICM. Some others may disagree.
          Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
          04-07-2011 , 04:49 AM
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Prestige Worldwide
          Does Sharkscope keep track of theses? If not who does? for free hopefully
          Yes, they do.

          to filter these you can use the following conditions:

          Entrants: 10 - 10
          Format: Exclude Double or Nothing
          Date: Year 2011
          Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
          04-07-2011 , 02:29 PM
          i found a really interesting hand..look at that





            Poker Stars, $30 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
            Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8800102

            MP1: 690 (3.5 bb)
            MP2: 6,510 (32.6 bb)
            MP3: 1,550 (7.8 bb)
            CO: 4,090 (20.5 bb)
            BTN: 1,525 (7.6 bb)
            SB: 280 (1.4 bb)
            Hero (BB): 355 (1.8 bb)

            Preflop: (175) Hero is BB with 8 8
            MP1 raises to 600, MP2 calls 600, 3 folds, SB calls 155 and is all-in, Hero????



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            Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
            04-07-2011 , 03:39 PM
            I agree that the hand is interesting. It is also a pretty rare situation. The solution is long and complex It is certainly doable(but my answering doesn't mean that I volunteer).

            My thought is this and I could be way off-base here but if you are fairly frequently finding yourself in these kinda spots(very short stack trying to oulast other very short stacks) it is possible that you playing too passively in the late/middle and late game. If so, I would go over your tournament HH's to look for possible plus EV spots that you might have passed up before you got to this situation.
            Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
            04-07-2011 , 06:17 PM
            Is anyone else getting basically the same "red line" in HM after updating to .06d? Ive created a new database and reimported all hands (ive actually done this twice cos i thought there was a problem the 1st time).

            After 5k games the EV difference between the old 50/30/20 and new 60/10/10/10/10 is like $100. I play $50's and $100 mostly. Plus they both look pretty much exactly the same shape wise.

            Last edited by wayneking7; 04-07-2011 at 06:24 PM.
            Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
            04-07-2011 , 09:00 PM
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Lythande71
            Yes, they do.

            to filter these you can use the following conditions:

            Entrants: 10 - 10
            Format: Exclude Double or Nothing
            Date: Year 2011
            thank you Lythande
            Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
            04-07-2011 , 11:57 PM
            Didn't have much history with villain he was pretty active tho and playing a 32/15...



            Hand 1/1Hand HistoryReplayerPoker Stars, $30 Buy-in (75/150 blinds, 20 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
            Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8829022

            BTN: 2,750 (18.3 bb)
            SB: 6,380 (42.5 bb)
            BB: 1,271 (8.5 bb)
            UTG: 330 (2.2 bb)
            MP: 3,104 (20.7 bb)
            Hero (CO): 1,165 (7.8 bb)

            Preflop: (120) Hero is CO with Q Q
            UTG folds, MP raises to 3,084 and is all-in, 4 folds

            Normally, ICM would be pretty useless in a spot like this with such an ultrashort stack near the bubble as it tends to overestimate that small stacks equity. Therefore, it would tell hero to call more loosely than he should. I ran it anyway and even it says you can't call with QQ here unless villain is pushing more than 30%. Unless he is really clueless there is no way he'd be pushing that wide here. Therefore, surprising as it may seem, QQ is a clear fold in this spot.

            Note This problem orig posted by BluDevil_03 in a separate thread
            Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
            04-08-2011 , 05:42 AM
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by kzk
            i found a really interesting hand..look at that





              Poker Stars, $30 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
              Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8800102

              MP1: 690 (3.5 bb)
              MP2: 6,510 (32.6 bb)
              MP3: 1,550 (7.8 bb)
              CO: 4,090 (20.5 bb)
              BTN: 1,525 (7.6 bb)
              SB: 280 (1.4 bb)
              Hero (BB): 355 (1.8 bb)

              Preflop: (175) Hero is BB with 8 8
              MP1 raises to 600, MP2 calls 600, 3 folds, SB calls 155 and is all-in, Hero????



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              You can fold and hope that the big stack bust both MP1 and SB, or you can call and hope that you beat both MP1 and MP2. I'd call.
              Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
              04-11-2011 , 05:48 PM
              just wondering how you guys feel about this shove.

              PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.08 Tournament, 150/300 Blinds 40 Ante (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

              SB (t1365)
              BB (t3275)
              UTG (t2170)
              MP1 (t2491)
              MP2 (t930)
              CO (t1884)
              Hero (Button) (t2885)

              Hero's M: 3.95

              Preflop: Hero is Button with 4, Q
              4 folds, Hero bets t2845 (All-In), SB calls t1175 (All-In), 1 fold
              Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
              04-11-2011 , 05:52 PM
              By the way i've already ran it through sngwix but i always like to get the opinion of more experienced. Wiz says it's an easy shove as i should be shoving 90-99 percent in that spot depending on how the blinds play. On the other hand it's a risky play.
              Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
              04-11-2011 , 11:10 PM
              If wiz is calling this a shove I'm guessing you have their calling ranges pretty tight. I would probably be folding on the fly unless HUD stats show villains as tight. Then again, I'm a pretty big nit.
              Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
              04-12-2011 , 12:02 AM
              My gut says easy fold. I put it in Wiz and I guess it could be a thin shove if blinds are kinda tight. Nash says push 52.9% for what thats worth(Q4o doesn't make the cut).
              Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
              04-12-2011 , 05:02 AM
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by HyperionMark
              If wiz is calling this a shove I'm guessing you have their calling ranges pretty tight. I would probably be folding on the fly unless HUD stats show villains as tight. Then again, I'm a pretty big nit.
              Honestly forgot to mess with the bb but wiz says it's a shove regardless of whether i say sb is average tight or loose. I usually use the tight setting in that spot against unknowns as most players are way to tight once you get down to 6 and 7 left. They are however super loose when you have 9 or 10 left.
              Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
              04-12-2011 , 08:48 AM
                Poker Stars, $50 Buy-in (250/500 blinds, 60 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
                Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8959732

                UTG: 6,420 (12.8 bb)
                MP: 780 (1.6 bb)
                CO: 1,860 (3.7 bb)
                Hero (BTN): 1,430 (2.9 bb)
                SB: 4,020 (8 bb)
                BB: 490 (1 bb)

                Preflop: (360) Hero is BTN with K T
                UTG calls 500, 2 folds, Hero????



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                Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
                04-12-2011 , 09:14 AM
                what is a comfortable amount of buy ins to play at the $5 level ? 12 tabling
                Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
                04-12-2011 , 09:25 AM
                I think the limp you made is the best choice. Pushing is bad, you aren't getting UTG to lay down better and you don't want to bust here with MP being so short as well. I don't think I'd limp with worse than this though and of course this requires the SB not being a maniac.

                A possible reason to fold it might be that you could still skate under the 300/600 blind level if the two shorties made it out alive. Sometimes going into a DoN mode is the right play.
                Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
                04-12-2011 , 09:26 AM
                How do you guys play draws in these? I know they have less value then in a cash game.
                Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
                04-12-2011 , 09:28 AM
                Depends on how good you are. If you are over 5% ROI I would probably be ok with around 30-35, but if you are a little closer to breakeven I would wants upwards of 50 or more.
                Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
                04-12-2011 , 09:31 AM
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by kzk
                  Poker Stars, $50 Buy-in (250/500 blinds, 60 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
                  Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8959732

                  UTG: 6,420 (12.8 bb)
                  MP: 780 (1.6 bb)
                  CO: 1,860 (3.7 bb)
                  Hero (BTN): 1,430 (2.9 bb)
                  SB: 4,020 (8 bb)
                  BB: 490 (1 bb)

                  Preflop: (360) Hero is BTN with K T
                  UTG calls 500, 2 folds, Hero????



                  Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
                  Folding is best option imo. Push and UTG will call you. Limp and you'll end up in a 4-way pot.
                  Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
                  04-12-2011 , 09:39 AM
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by HyperionMark
                  Depends on how good you are. If you are over 5% ROI I would probably be ok with around 30-35, but if you are a little closer to breakeven I would wants upwards of 50 or more.
                  im 2%roi over only 90 games at the 50/50s so i think ill start with 40 buy ins thanks for your help
                  Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
                  04-12-2011 , 09:42 AM
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by HyperionMark
                  Depends on how good you are. If you are over 5% ROI I would probably be ok with around 30-35, but if you are a little closer to breakeven I would wants upwards of 50 or more.
                  This sounds like a good way to go broke.
                  Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
                  04-12-2011 , 09:52 AM
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Joshfan
                  This sounds like a good way to go broke.
                  explain please?
                  Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote

                        
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