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Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion

03-30-2011 , 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnniewalk
The 10% includes the times where sb folds and bb folds, which i guesstimated would be around 8/9%. Plus the times where sb calls, bb calls, and bb scoops is probably 1/2%ish. i just added these two situations together to get the 10%.
fair enough, i ll invest more time in training my reading skills
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03-30-2011 , 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionMark
Not sure if there is much practicality to thinking about this, but probably more for fun...

Very first hand of a Fifty50, you are on the big blind and every single player pushes all in ahead of you...what is your correct calling/pushing range?

Same question except there are now 6 players all with equal stacks (2500). You are on the big blind and everyone pushes all in ahead of you...what is your correct calling/pushing range?
two aces of spades...
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03-30-2011 , 10:16 AM
Any thoughts on the hand I posted near the bottom of the previous page?
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03-30-2011 , 10:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbreslin
Not sure if this one is trivial or not. Villain had been pretty active on the bubble in terms of open-raising, obviously looking to chip up before the shortie dies. This was the first time I had seen him shove-3B though. Probably still trying to chip up, but is it worth the risk with a shortie on life support and my stack sitting at 2.5 BI?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 5.3 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) (t4580)
Button (t1110)
SB (t365)
BB (t1830)
UTG (t4265)
MP (t2850)

Hero's M: 50.89

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J
UTG calls t60, 1 fold, Hero bets t180, 2 folds, BB raises to t1830 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero ???
If he understands the concept of abusing the bubble, he might be seeing you trying to abuse it as well, being the big stack at the table and just one guy limping in front of you.

Cant run any numbers but I´d snapcall this.
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
03-30-2011 , 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbreslin
Not sure if this one is trivial or not. Villain had been pretty active on the bubble in terms of open-raising, obviously looking to chip up before the shortie dies. This was the first time I had seen him shove-3B though. Probably still trying to chip up, but is it worth the risk with a shortie on life support and my stack sitting at 2.5 BI?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 5.3 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) (t4580)
Button (t1110)
SB (t365)
BB (t1830)
UTG (t4265)
MP (t2850)

Hero's M: 50.89

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J
UTG calls t60, 1 fold, Hero bets t180, 2 folds, BB raises to t1830 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero ???
Call. I would treat this hand like a cash game, although you don't often see a guy just 3bet shove 30bb in cash games.


Opponents range:AK,AQ,44-KK,the occasional miss click,a few moron shoves.
I think his range heavily concentrated on AK and 88-QQ the way this play was made. I also threw out AA just because the way he shoved 30bb.

JJ is ahead of his range and the likelihood of survival if you lose this hand is very high.

If this opponent flipped up AKs here prior to making your decision, would you still call? I would.

So if we add in all of the other hands he could have, there is more pairs under JJ than over JJ in his estimated range. Therefore its an easy call.
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
03-30-2011 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotzenplOdds
If he understands the concept of abusing the bubble, he might be seeing you trying to abuse it as well, being the big stack at the table and just one guy limping in front of you.

Cant run any numbers but I´d snapcall this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnniewalk
Call. I would treat this hand like a cash game, although you don't often see a guy just 3bet shove 30bb in cash games.


Opponents range:AK,AQ,44-KK,the occasional miss click,a few moron shoves.
I think his range heavily concentrated on AK and 88-QQ the way this play was made. I also threw out AA just because the way he shoved 30bb.

JJ is ahead of his range and the likelihood of survival if you lose this hand is very high.

If this opponent flipped up AKs here prior to making your decision, would you still call? I would.

So if we add in all of the other hands he could have, there is more pairs under JJ than over JJ in his estimated range. Therefore its an easy call.
Don't forget that if we win this hand the tournament will be over, and we'll forfeit any future equity we might have by continuing to pwn the bubble.
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03-30-2011 , 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fievel
Don't forget that if we win this hand the tournament will be over, and we'll forfeit any future equity we might have by continuing to pwn the bubble.
Not sure that's relevant in this case since a win will put us over 3 BI. I'd happily take that and end the tourney.

However, I'm still unsure about the call. I know I'm ahead of his range but not far ahead. If we include the big pairs (maybe he's hoping I'll think his overshove looks like a middling pair) and AK/AKs, I'm a coinflip fav. Obviously I become a much bigger fav if you exclude AA/KK.

Yeah, I probably should have called. I am ahead of his likely range and winning ends the tourney with a 3 BI return for me, while losing still leaves me a decent 2700-ish stack. Not very often in these you get a chance to secure a 3 BI return with limited risk.
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
03-30-2011 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotzenplOdds
If he understands the concept of abusing the bubble, he might be seeing you trying to abuse it as well, being the big stack at the table and just one guy limping in front of you.

Cant run any numbers but I´d snapcall this.
+1
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
03-30-2011 , 11:45 PM
now that they are offering omaha fifty50s can we get a seperate thread where we can discuss them? i cannot find them discussed anywhere, no ones even mentioned this and its new. really upsets me they dont go at the $50 levels, i cant find a single one going over $5 or $10
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03-30-2011 , 11:47 PM
The # of people that play omaha in this forum is probably 10 or less and no one plays omahaha sngs cause they don't ever run like you siad
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03-31-2011 , 09:50 AM
Omaha is the wrong game for the fifty50 format. Hand values run so close in omaha that you're rarely getting your money in as a big fav. Not enough reward in the fifty50 format to offset the fact that you typically have much less fold equity than in NLHE, and you're basically flipping for stacks constantly.
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03-31-2011 , 11:15 AM
How do I copy the suggested shoving/calling range by sng wiz? Im tired of typing everything out manually every time I make minor tweeks to my charts.
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04-01-2011 , 12:53 PM
What do you guys think about me ?(SN Succeed1337) I may do sometimes terrible moves but I`m at least 25 Tabling sometimes if I`m bored I play ~40, so that drops my ROI ofc. Played mostly 10s some 20s/30s/50s
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-01-2011 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSash1337
What do you guys think about me ?(SN Succeed1337) I may do sometimes terrible moves but I`m at least 25 Tabling sometimes if I`m bored I play ~40, so that drops my ROI ofc. Played mostly 10s some 20s/30s/50s
Don't believe i've played with you yet, but nice results so far.

I have a very good/advanced strategy if you want to succeed at the higher stakes, fold vs me if you think your hand is better than mine, and call if you think your hand is worse, GL!
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-01-2011 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSash1337
What do you guys think about me ?(SN Succeed1337) I may do sometimes terrible moves but I`m at least 25 Tabling sometimes if I`m bored I play ~40, so that drops my ROI ofc. Played mostly 10s some 20s/30s/50s
Pretty decent for MTBing these. Not that I try to avoid you at the tables but I am not happy either if you are there
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04-01-2011 , 02:51 PM
Quote:
Don't believe i've played with you yet, but nice results so far.
I run quite hot tbh(in the 10s), didn`t work a lot on my game yet but I will when I start moving up.
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-01-2011 , 10:11 PM
Hey guys,

I posted this in another thread and was told I'd be better off posting it here.

Quote:
I've been playing the $5 turbos and my average game is 25 minutes. I've never had a game reach the 40 minute mark; my longest was 37 minutes.

How many tables do you guys play on average, and which HUD stats do you prefer? I think these games are very easy to mass table and I'm looking to improve my ROI with some HUD adjustments.

I'm currently keeping it simple with VPIP/PFR, and I use table ninja to show my BB's. I tried using HEM for opponents BB's/M, but the blinds raise every 3 minutes and the stats don't update until the next hand - making them unreliable and forcing mistakes.

I'm undecided trying to find the right balance. Less stats/number crunching = more tables, potential for higher hourly. But I'm also wondering if I'm missing a really important stat that would help my ROI.
Would love to hear your feedback!
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-02-2011 , 12:34 AM
In HM steal from button and BvB would help

Although from multitabling could be useless cause you have to see the whole stacks and them evaluate his steal range based in the stats
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-03-2011 , 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Class
Hey guys,

I posted this in another thread and was told I'd be better off posting it here.

I've been playing the $5 turbos and my average game is 25 minutes. I've never had a game reach the 40 minute mark; my longest was 37 minutes.

How many tables do you guys play on average, and which HUD stats do you prefer? I think these games are very easy to mass table and I'm looking to improve my ROI with some HUD adjustments.

I'm currently keeping it simple with VPIP/PFR, and I use table ninja to show my BB's. I tried using HEM for opponents BB's/M, but the blinds raise every 3 minutes and the stats don't update until the next hand - making them unreliable and forcing mistakes.

I'm undecided trying to find the right balance. Less stats/number crunching = more tables, potential for higher hourly. But I'm also wondering if I'm missing a really important stat that would help my ROI.


Would love to hear your feedback!
First off, I'm sorry you haven't gotten more feedback to what I think are very good questions. I am a winning high stakes reg and I intend to give you some detailed(albeit unconventional)answers but first if you would indulge me by answering the following questions so that I know where you are at now

What # of tables you are currently playing
Do you feel comfortable playing the above # or do you feel you could do better right now at a lower #
Approx #of games and %ROI that you have
Any experience in other forms of SNG's
Are you familiar with SNGWizard and do you own it?
How familiar are you with
ICM
Nash eq.
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-03-2011 , 07:32 PM
Sadly this great thread in getting unanswered . In the old DON days we have some similar untill it was banned. I think in short time this will have same end if this thread gets popular
If it was at Internet poker section there wont be problem but under STT strategy has its days counted .

Anyway , a simple question :
I have trouble trying to figure ranges of the Villans , lets imagine this scenario:

Fifty 52 or 104 turbo, blinds 150/300 .
All 6 players , tight , regulars and winners . CL pushing blinds not 100% but enough.

UTG 2000
UTG1 1500
CO 1500
BT5500
SB (Hero) 3000
BB 1500

UTG , UTG1 folds , CO shove 1500 , BT folds

Hero ?

Here I have some , but Im interesting in what range of cards do you think CO has .
He is not too tight , he is like 18/15 unfiltered.
He is going to lose his FE when blinds it , if he fold BT will push almost for sure cause blinds are folding too much .
So , range ? How acuratte is Nash here ?
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-03-2011 , 09:04 PM
According to Nash CO should push 25.2%(22+,Ax,K9s+,KJo+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s).
SB should call 16.9%(33+,A3s+,A7o+,KTs+,KQo). Effective M=2.17 a little low but I think Nash is still fairly good in this spot. Of course, if you think CO pushing wider than Nash you can call wider and if tighter call tighter.

By the way, as you say if CO folds Button should push 90% according to Nash
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-04-2011 , 04:13 AM
I think nash is ok here but because there are 3 equally short stacks i think CO's shoving range here is more like 14-20%, if he knows what he is doing.
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-04-2011 , 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Class
I've been playing the $5 turbos and my average game is 25 minutes. I've never had a game reach the 40 minute mark; my longest was 37 minutes.

How many tables do you guys play on average, and which HUD stats do you prefer? I think these games are very easy to mass table and I'm looking to improve my ROI with some HUD adjustments.

I'm currently keeping it simple with VPIP/PFR, and I use table ninja to show my BB's. I tried using HEM for opponents BB's/M, but the blinds raise every 3 minutes and the stats don't update until the next hand - making them unreliable and forcing mistakes.

I'm undecided trying to find the right balance. Less stats/number crunching = more tables, potential for higher hourly. But I'm also wondering if I'm missing a really important stat that would help my ROI.
Fifty50 $5, hm, I play 12 -16 tables using a simple HUD:
VP$IP, PFR, AF #hands (all blindlevel)
VP$IP, PFR, CurrentBL, #hands (filtered by the current blind level phase)

IMHO there is no need for more or more complex stats at this $5 Fifty50.
It is crucial to know how is who at this level to distinguish regs from unknowns (by #hands) and to have a good read on their shoving ranges in end game (by VP$IP, PFR).

That said, I'd go with k.i.s.s. at this level.
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-05-2011 , 03:04 AM
How do fify50's compare to other sng forms (dons/hypers/normal sngs) in terms of enjoyability?
Fifty50 strat/RoI Discussion Quote
04-05-2011 , 03:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beserious
How do fify50's compare to other sng forms (dons/hypers/normal sngs) in terms of enjoyability?
That's a kind of personal preference type question as what I might find enjoyable you may not. If you can list your likes/dislikes about the other SNG forms I can answer you better(I have played all of the other formats at one time or another).
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