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04-02-2024 , 10:18 PM
H1: We have 36K, Villain covers with about 48K (30K was starting stack). Blinds 600/1.2K w 1.2K ante. We open to 2.6K w 55 UTG. folds to BB who defends (younger player, probably Spanish, unshaven and overweight). Flop: Jc 4d 2s. Check, we bet 2.2K, villain raises to 6.5K. We call. Turn is a 3c. BB leads for 5.5K, we call. River: 7h, he checks and we shove about 21K.

H2: blinds 1K/2.5K w 2.5K ante, folds to us OTB with J9s, we open to 5.5K, sb shoves for 22K, BB folds (we have about 55K). Are you calling here?

H3: Blinds 2k/4K w 4K ante MP (active younger player) opens to 8k, HJ Calls (VPIP of probably around 40%), folds to hero in SB with ATo. We Jam 75K.
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04-02-2024 , 11:16 PM
You are definitely a tough player and hard to get a read on.

H1. I like the river shove. You have the right amount to knock op off a big jack and if he calls, you have outs. A great semi bluff but if op called, you probably need to improve.

H2. Not the right odds but I would sometimes make the call if I thought op was getting antsy with 1/2 of average stack. Prob 33% call.

H3. Ballsy. Overvaluing a10o is something I have tried to stop doing but your hand looks strong given the action. I would be hoping for no call. And if it gets through, I may show if I had a nitty table image.
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04-03-2024 , 08:52 AM
H1 - think your line is fine. Odd for him to raise the flop here out of the blinds and the turn bet seems more like some kind of weak Jx. I'm not thrilled to jam the river but think its the right play

H2 - definitely folding. Could consider limping the button as well vs aggressive preflop players

H3 - looks good - there's a ton of dead money in there including HJ calling so I think you're printing money here.
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04-03-2024 , 09:05 AM
H1 ... either folding flop or going with it like you did. Probably taking your line with player description.

H2 ... yeah sigh fold cuz I'm calling vs half the deck

H3 ... ATo is to loose here generally but it's really read dependent. If opener is a loose cannon it's fine vs them and a capped range.
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04-03-2024 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
You are definitely a tough player and hard to get a read on.

H1. I like the river shove. You have the right amount to knock op off a big jack and if he calls, you have outs. A great semi bluff but if op called, you probably need to improve.

H2. Not the right odds but I would sometimes make the call if I thought op was getting antsy with 1/2 of average stack. Prob 33% call.

H3. Ballsy. Overvaluing a10o is something I have tried to stop doing but your hand looks strong given the action. I would be hoping for no call. And if it gets through, I may show if I had a nitty table image.
I don't like our chances of improving after the river jam .

H1 - I just don't know what we are specifically repping, and feels like the described player just shrugderpcalls with like QJo or is giving up with something we beat like A4cc.

H2 - Folding, too big a chunk of our stack, plus our opens will lose credibility (which is of course great if we catch fire, but bad otherwise).

H3 - I like it, given the active opener and loose caller.
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04-03-2024 , 12:43 PM
I agree with Black Aces.

Seems like you're targeting exactly Jx with your shove in hand 1, but it's a lot to expect villain to lay down TP on that board (which doesn't exactly smack your range). All the other hands he plays this way are hands you beat.
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04-03-2024 , 01:51 PM
H1: It could work. Looks like we have AJ or QQ+ and played it smoothly. We could also have 66/77. If I was Villain I would sometimes call with Jx but mostly fold.

H2: I call here. Our pot odds are close to 33% and Villain has just 9 blinds so could be shoving with any pair really.

H3: This shove totally depends on my image at the time. If I have only shown JJ+/AQ+ 3 bet hands then this feels right. If my opening range has been wide with what I have shown it could make a difference as well. But if you have been relatively tight with what you have shown and haven't been 3-betting too frequently then this is a great spot to shove. But definitely do not show your hand...
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04-03-2024 , 02:33 PM
H1 - Solver prefers to bluff with our Khi and Qhi club hands that peel the flop with backdoors + over. 55 is a pure check prob for reasons mentioned above. You are trying to fold out Jx which is a dicey proposition. I guess the Kc and Qc also provide decent blocker to strong Jx.

H2- Pure call. Getting 2:1 and you have 40% against any pair, any ace, any broadway. We arent close enough to money to pass up that edge. Villain needs to be a certified nit to consider folding.

H3 - Solver mixes call and fold, pretty indifferent. Jam is a decent loser here. Considering that you are a few levels away from the money (In my experience its around 3k/6k when it hits the money), I think a fold is the play.
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04-03-2024 , 02:49 PM
thanks, ledn! curious what you assigned as ranges for the opener and caller in H3 and how you accounted for their tendencies. I'm pretty shocked that it likes calling with big offsuit cards out of the SB, generally avoid that, but I guess the shallow stacks means if we flop TP, we can happily just go.
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04-03-2024 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518
thanks, ledn! curious what you assigned as ranges for the opener and caller in H3 and how you accounted for their tendencies. I'm pretty shocked that it likes calling with big offsuit cards out of the SB, generally avoid that, but I guess the shallow stacks means if we flop TP, we can happily just go.
Just general GTOWizard preflop. Nothing special. Its probably pretty accurate for the PFR and too tight for the caller.

A wider flat range does probably mean that we can jam wider profitably, but I still dont think a hand that is a indifferent between call/fold becomes a jam. And this is all before ICM considerations (there is probably like 25-30% of field left on average at this blind level and 15% cash in Circuit events)


Solver is almost always going to have a sb flatting range with an ante in play. Even at shallow stack depths. Generally AA and hands like suited Kx,Qx,Jx with a medium kicker. K6s, Q8s, J9s, etc

Last edited by ledn; 04-03-2024 at 04:11 PM.
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04-03-2024 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledn
Just general GTOWizard preflop. Nothing special. Its probably pretty accurate for the PFR and too tight for the caller.
For the ATo hand, the cold caller said he folded A9o after the hand.
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04-03-2024 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatPots
For the ATo hand, the cold caller said he folded A9o after the hand.
lol yea thats way too loose. That is going to make a jam more profitable than it should be from your extra fold equity. Still dont think I do it with ATo though. This is possibly also the type of player who wont 3bet hands like TT-QQ or AQ and AK preflop and so that may strengthen his range a little bit.

Im changing to call now I think with weak player in there. PFR has to play pretty straightforward postflop 3way with a loose player IP on him so we realize our equity pretty well.
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04-03-2024 , 06:59 PM
I'm stunned that a Solver would call with ATo in the SB.

I think this is why I am enjoying playing against young GTO/Solvers
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04-03-2024 , 10:14 PM
Ledn, I'm surprised that you think hand 2 is a 40% hand given the possible overpairs and shared cards. JJ, 99, kj, aj would all be horrible to see, and most two over card hands, we are 40%.
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04-04-2024 , 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
Ledn, I'm surprised that you think hand 2 is a 40% hand given the possible overpairs and shared cards. JJ, 99, kj, aj would all be horrible to see, and most two over card hands, we are 40%.
its simple range equity calculation. Its not my opinion... well his range is my opinion of course, but the result isnt. J9s has 40% against any Ace, any pair, any broadway, which I think is a pretty reasonable range for a 9bb jam bb v btn.

Hell give him a tight range of 55+, A5s+, A8o+, JTs+, QJo+ and J9s has 36% equity. Which is probably about how much equity we want when accounting for ICM.

https://openpokertools.com/range-equity.html

Here is a free browser based range vs range calculator. Really good for preflop. Less good for postflop because you cant choose what combos of a hand to choose, so you cant do flush draws. AJs is either all 4 combos or 0 combos.

Last edited by ledn; 04-04-2024 at 01:10 PM.
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04-04-2024 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick
I'm stunned that a Solver would call with ATo in the SB.

I think this is why I am enjoying playing against young GTO/Solvers
Solver likes flatting sb with certain hands when antes are in play at most stack depths, even as low as 15-17bb eff but does it more as stacks get deeper.

Of course if you do a cash game sim with no antes + rake the sb is almost always 3bet or fold.
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04-04-2024 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledn
its simple range equity calculation. Its not my opinion... well his range is my opinion of course, but the result isnt. J9s has 40% against any Ace, any pair, any broadway, which I think is a pretty reasonable range for a 9bb jam bb v btn.

Hell give him a tight range of 55+, A5s+, A8o+, JTs+, QJo+ and J9s has 36% equity. Which is probably about how much equity we want when accounting for ICM.

https://openpokertools.com/range-equity.html

Here is a free browser based range vs range calculator. Really good for preflop. Less good for postflop because you cant choose what combos of a hand to choose, so you cant do flush draws. AJs is either all 4 combos or 0 combos.
Thanks. I will take a look at it.

My gorilla math was that he is 50% against half the pairs, 33-40% against Ax+ or two overs, but then he is a big dog, 14-20%, against JJ,99,1010, ovèrpairs and hands that share cards

Last edited by jjjou812; 04-04-2024 at 04:04 PM.
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04-04-2024 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
Thanks. I will take a look at it.

My gorilla math was that he is 50% against half the pairs, 33-40% against Ax+ or two overs, but then he is a big dog, 14-20%, against JJ,99,1010, ovèrpairs and hands that share cards
You underestimate the equity vs one overcard hands. Its 46% against A7o, and 44% vs A7s. 47.5% vs A6o and worse.

37% vs two suited overs
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04-05-2024 , 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatPots
H1: We have 36K, Villain covers with about 48K (30K was starting stack). Blinds 600/1.2K w 1.2K ante. We open to 2.6K w 55 UTG. folds to BB who defends (younger player, probably Spanish, unshaven and overweight). Flop: Jc 4d 2s. Check, we bet 2.2K, villain raises to 6.5K. We call. Turn is a 3c. BB leads for 5.5K, we call. River: 7h, he checks and we shove about 21K.

H2: blinds 1K/2.5K w 2.5K ante, folds to us OTB with J9s, we open to 5.5K, sb shoves for 22K, BB folds (we have about 55K). Are you calling here?

H3: Blinds 2k/4K w 4K ante MP (active younger player) opens to 8k, HJ Calls (VPIP of probably around 40%), folds to hero in SB with ATo. We Jam 75K.
H1 I prolly fold flop but idk prolly continue is better. I wouldn’t jam river bc I feel it’s bad bc we are only called by better. I would check back river and showdown my hand. We are never called down by A high here.

H2- I’m not folding to a 10bb or less shove when I open. J9s Is perfectly fine to call here. Might consider fold 22, 33 or 44 bc we flip at best and smashed other times. Folding to 22k here would be really bad.

H3- I like it. I think this spot is good bc we pick up dead money bc we just need to worry about original raiser most of the time. Sure we will run into better hands that flat but not often enough this play isn’t great- like it against someone that is opening properly and wide enough as it sets up a nice squeeze. Spots like this- I feel most amateurs don’t find. We rip and pick up 6.5 bb and increase our stack by 34% without showdown when they both fold. Sometimes a call happens and we win a flip/ maybe we get called by AQ and somehow suck out. Great spot- never passing on it. When we lose- we just go oh unlucky, on to the next tourny.
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04-25-2024 , 07:07 PM
H1: check back river, you have too much showdown value

H2: snap call

H3: don't like it, they'll call off pretty close to optimally if he's around an average MP open range. I actually think it's a fold pre.
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04-25-2024 , 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatPots
H1: We have 36K, Villain covers with about 48K (30K was starting stack). Blinds 600/1.2K w 1.2K ante. We open to 2.6K w 55 UTG. folds to BB who defends (younger player, probably Spanish, unshaven and overweight). Flop: Jc 4d 2s. Check, we bet 2.2K, villain raises to 6.5K. We call. Turn is a 3c. BB leads for 5.5K, we call. River: 7h, he checks and we shove about 21K.

H2: blinds 1K/2.5K w 2.5K ante, folds to us OTB with J9s, we open to 5.5K, sb shoves for 22K, BB folds (we have about 55K). Are you calling here?

H3: Blinds 2k/4K w 4K ante MP (active younger player) opens to 8k, HJ Calls (VPIP of probably around 40%), folds to hero in SB with ATo. We Jam 75K.
Hand #1 - Standard to the river. On the river, we probably don't ever bluff river with pairs here, we want our bluffs to come from hands that block his auto-calls, so having a big broadway card or maybe even an A is probably better than something like 55.

Hand #2 - Ax/Kx hands with blockers and pairs just perform way better in these spots. You'd much rather have A5o than J9s here. JTs might actually be a call though, so maybe J9s isn't that bad.

Hand #3 - probably a pip too wide - although if you're always folding out AJ here (HJ probably should mostly call AJ in theory) then it's great. .
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04-26-2024 , 02:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpgiro
You'd much rather have A5o than J9s here.
Calling a shove? That doesn't sound right.
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05-03-2024 , 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nath
Calling a shove? That doesn't sound right.
Meant to say A5s. (or A9o) You want hands with Ax blockers to call shoves in these spots. Although...

A lot of it really depends on how wide you think SB jams and whether you have a hand that can dominate (or at least be significantly ahead) at least some of his jams. The problem with J9s is that SB's likely not jamming stuff like T9 or J8 (or worse) very often, so your best case scenario is often that you're flipping with smaller pairs. Whereas a hand like A5 can sometimes be ahead of stuff like KQ or QJ and dominates A2-A4.

EDIT: This might not be a perfect example, but here's an example of BTN vs. SB in a 10BB ICM spot. You don't see J9 in BTN's range because it actually jams pre for 20BB in this scenario, but you can see Q9s is a fold, but A5o is a call. And that's because SB is jamming stuff like A2-A4 and a lot of their broadways, and we're ahead of that portion of their range.


Last edited by jpgiro; 05-03-2024 at 07:52 PM.
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