Prior to this hand I had about 15 blinds (maybe as much as 20) and was in 3rd place. The chip leader had almost 4x my chip stack and the 2nd place guy had close to 2x my chips.

This is day 2 and I had played a lot of the day with both of the players. The chip leader had been short stack at the table with about 32 players left and went on a tear. He doubled up like 4 times. By the time he was at the final table with 7 players left he had over half the chips and the rest of us had between 1,000,000 and 1,700,000 chips all of us with like 10 to 22 blinds. And this was for awhile.

The chip leader started raising a lot and the rest of us just went all in with big hands against him and he mostly folded. Which kept us afloat. There was one other player who doubled up a couple of times and then he got eliminated by the chip leader QQ vs KK.

My image was that when I jammed I had very big hands. I had doubled up with QQ vs KJo (a jam by a short stack that was slightly bigger than mine) when I had about 700,000 chips which at the time was like 9 blinds.

The hand before the hand in question the chip leader had raised to like 2x which was his standard and I had jammed with JJ. He insta called with TT and I won the hand. So on the next hand I was SB he was BB and 2nd place guy folded on the BTN. I look down and see 99. Because I had well over 25 blinds I didn't want to jam. So I took out some raising chips but didn't want to raise and have chip leader (and this is ironic because I now had slightly more chips than "chip leader" though I didn't realize it) call and be OOP in a relatively big pot with overcards likely. So I thought maybe this was a good spot to limp and if he raised then I would jam.

So I put out the call. Villain insta jammed. For whatever reason I insta called. I really didn't think it through and it wasn't part of the plan. My hands reacted faster than my mind. Probably an amygdala thing. Also to be fair I should have been eliminated in about 23rd place when I jammed A6o from LJ (OK when I jammed I didn't know I had a 6 I only knew I had an A) with like 270,000 chips (9 blinds) after I had lost 150,000 chips with 33 in the BB when SB jammed with A4o and I had called. A guy with AJo called and a guy with a huge stack jammed with AQo and AJo folded. 6 on the flop and I tripled up and there were 2 J's by the river. So my attitude at that point was not to move up the ladder but to try to play as aggressively as possible and go as deep as I could because I should have been eliminated. Also a little later at another table SB jammed with like 24 blinds and 720,000 when I was BB with AK and I called and held on against JTo and knocked him out with like 20,000 more chips than he had.

One thing I should also mention is that when there were 6 to 9 players at the final table I had limped as SB about 5 times and 4 of those times the BB had either raised or jammed and I had folded each of those times. And similarly at the prior table I had been at with Villain I had limped from SB like 5 or 6 times and won some of those hands against BB but don't think I ever had to show my hand.

I think that part of the reason I called so quickly with 99 was that I didn't care if I lost and finished in 3rd place. But the other part of the reason was that 99 is a hand I had previously folded in big spots and I wanted it to be part of my new aggressive strategy. I realize it is a borderline hand but for whatever reason this was a pivotal point in the tournament and I thought it was possible that villain might be shoving Ax hands that would include cards lower than a 9. Especially if it was suited. And I think I was OK with flipping against hands like AT+/KQ

If prize money matters in this it was something like 24,000 euros for 1st place, 14,000 Euros for 2nd place and 10,000 Euros for 3rd place but incredibly I had never checked the screen to see any of the amounts once we hit 10th place. Up until then there were like 64 people who made it to day 2 and the payouts were really low until the top 10. Like from 600 Euros to 1800 Euros from 64th through 11th place. Because the payouts were so low (and I had bought in twice) I just didn't care where I finished except I wanted to give finishing in the top 3 my best shot.

Anyway, all thoughts welcome.

Based on the fact that you posted I am guessing he had a big pair, but this seems fine to me. 99 is a very strong hand and it is V's job to push both of you around given his massive chip lead. I think a call is even more mandatory since you said you have mostly folded after limping from the SB and are not known for being trappy. Seems like he is just exerting max pressure and could even have something you beat clearly like Ax suited.

I might not like this play at a full table, where you have plenty of time to wait for premiums (still think you have to call it off against a chip leader), but a 15-20 BB stack is going to disappear quickly 3-handed. Dan Harrington articulated this with his concept of Effective M--having 15 BBs 3 way is like having 5 BBs 9 way. The 2nd place player is not going to do anything stupid, so they both are going to wait for you to get a shovable hand. And you only have about 9 hands before you lose half your stack! (Assuming there was a BBA since it's standard now.) So it actually seems lucky to get something as good as 99.

Assuming you lost, I think it's just a cooler and there's nothing you can do. Congrats on the score btw.

ainec

Just for the record on the hand in question when I had 99 in the SB, I was the chip leader by a very small amount because I had doubled up against the previous Chip Leader (Villain). I didn't realize I was the Chip Leader but the Villain in the hand (the BB) might have known. Villain was in 2nd place now by a small margin and we were both somewhat ahead of the now 3rd place player who ironically was one of my favorite players in Prague. The first time I played a tournament in Prague (at Rebuy Stars Casino) over a year ago he was at my table for many hours, He spoke English with me, he enjoyed talking, and I really liked him.

So basically if Villain (BB) knew he was no longer the Chip Leader I am thinking that he would be more likely to have a really good hand. But I also think that he couldn't have AA and maybe KK as well because he would so rarely get called with both of us having slightly more than 30 blinds and that type of hand could win a lot of money if he made a smallish raise like 2.5x or 3x.

But I also didn't factor in how tilted he might be. Several hands before, Villain had raised from the BTN. 3rd place guy shoved in the SB, I folded the BB and Villain insta-called with 55. 3rd place guy turned over A2s and hit an A on the flop. So instead of Villain having the vast majority of chips and having knocked out the other player he basically had 4x my chips and more than 2x the other guy. And then I beat him all in preflop with JJ vs TT which was a cooler yes but might have contributed to tilt. Also when I had played with Villain for hours at another table and he was very short stacked he never showed signs of tilting when things had gone south. He just had waited until he had good hands and was aggressive with them.

I think 99 pretty much always has to be a call here.

I'm having trouble determining the relevant information on stack sizes and such amidst all the backstory.

Yeah, I don't think I am ever folding 99 three handed preflop, unless the chip distribution is 45%, 45%, 10% and it's the big stacks clashing. I would be looking to knock out the 10% first.

From what I read the stacks are somewhat near shortstack has around 30b you have around 37-45b and former chipleader has slightly less than you. In theory you can go with limp or 3.5x with 99. If you do limp you should make sure hes raising you at least 30 percent of the time otherwise purely raise. When limping you get value when BB bluff raises if hes not doing that you have to get value on your own by raising. Even with 15b 99 isn't an open jam it's way too good of a hand. You force out too many worse hands taking away from the value. It's significantly lower EV to jam.

I instantly think his jam is AKo AQo type hands sometimes it will be 88-JJ hands and maybe some low pocket pairs. With low pocket pairs in jam range it's a snap call without them it's marginal. I did a bit of loose Icmizering.

Having 30 BBs instead of 15 changes things a little bit, but I think it's still a call, especially considering that this is now a huge shove (30 BBs into a 2.5-3 BB pot). I don't know many Vs who would do this with a premium, so you are really only beat by the occasional JJ/TT and flipping with or beating the rest of opponent's holdings.

I don't agree with this. You will get called by several worse hands giving you the full double up, and have a chance to win a flip with only 5 premiums beating you. Whereas if you open, you can get 3 bet, which is miserable. If you get called, overcards will scare off the lower PPs/SCs and potentially improve the Broadway type hands, making it very difficult to play correctly. Maybe solvers prefer to open 99 but "playability" isn't a concern for them.

From my experience people barely find any loose jams from 40b. When people shove like this in general it's usually a hand they're afraid of punting with postflop say they 3bet i.e AKo AQo 88-JJ. AKo AQo can feel somewhat awkward to play in 3b pots. It takes a lot of guts to jam a bluff here I can't picture any bluffs. It even takes some guts to jam the smaller pocket pairs.

Yeah you get called by worse the problem is you force out way too many worse hands. At 15-20b you don't get 3bet often it isn't bad if you do. If it's against a player anywhat capable of bluffs you're supposed to shove and vs a nit that only 3bets premiums you dodge a cooler and fold. When villain 3b folds it's a huge win. The hands you dominate get in anyway people tend to shove way too many low pairs at fts. Solver still says it's higher value to raise without all the weaker pairs shoving. For the hands you force in postflop you get only 1bb from them if you shove as opposed to when they call you get way more. Majority of their range is weaker hands missing out on this majority torches EV.

Interesting - how does the solver recommend proceeding on boards with overcards? Or very wet boards that hit callers' ranges such as 456? My skepticism is due to these spots seeming very difficult to play as a human.

I don't have any SB vs BB ICM sims but I have looked at some SB vs BB raised pots in cEV. On boards with multiple overcards it's fine as a check fold it has to check call on certain boards vs small bet. 654 20bb plays all in or check in cEV 99 is a pure jam. I'm guessing in ICM the strategy will play as all in or check and if not that then big bet or check. the reason it goes for the all in or check strategy is because there are a lot of OESDs gutshots and overcards. Protection is very NEEDED. The all in forces pair with high kickers to call pair plus draw to call and oesd w high kickers to call. It wont get near as much value from these if it bets smaller bc a scare card can come taking value out of their hand and likely the 99 too.

Cool, thanks for the info!

Thanks for all comments and thoughts.

He flipped over 52o and I managed to hold even though the flop was 765 and the turn was a 4.

I was kind of shocked by his play. But I think he did it because I had folded to raises so many times after limping from the SB (which in fairness to reality was not why I called him).

I am not sure what my calling range in this spot is. On some days it might be 66+/AJ+. But on other days it could be TT+/AQ+ depending on the opponent and how few chips the 3rd place guy has. In this spot I think 3rd place guy had more than 20% of the chips which would have been over 20 blinds.

I won the tournament trophy after the other player and I reached a proportionate money chop. My winning hand was 99 (both black as had happened in the 99 vs 52o hand) vs 88 all in preflop.

Well clearly you did the right thing. Imagine if you'd folded...

Obviously the shove is a terrible play but 1) you'd limp-folded a lot prior to that and 2) sometimes it can be hard for table captains to get used to having a shorter stack and as soon as they find themselves short they will make desperate moves to get back into contention. Some of my easiest and biggest pots have been won against players in this mental state.

Congrats on the chop for 1st!

Geez, I'm surprised he jammed that weak. 52o is a much better raise/fold because his equity is so trash against your traps. I don't know if I'd jam at this depth with anything but if I did I'd want to have blockers or something with an actual chance of winning if I'm called.