i just want to point out that adding 2 90 minute levels will add MORE than 3 hours to the tournament on average, as it should increase the stack sizes in the later levels, thus creating a longer tournament on the whole. not MUCH longer but every time i see someone make this point in a structure debate (i've done it too without really thinking about it), they tend to forget that adding 2 levels to day 1 makes day 2 play deeper & reach the higher levels on later days as a result... and so on and so on. i'm not an expert on this topic like matt savage but it seems logical that adding more play early will also add more time to the event later.

You are correct and deeper play in the early levels makes later levels more shallow unless time is added to levels.

For the record
Day 1 played 6 levels and 11 hours
Day 2 played 6.5 levels to get to the money (18) in just over 12 hours
Day 3 played 5 full levels in 10 hours
Final Table went 5.5 levels in 11 hours

It went exactly as predicted and the majority players were VERY happy with the structure.

it's not like adding levels magically adds chips to the tournament. It's deeper because people have busted in the longer/additional levels. If you have a tournament with 5 minute levels you will finish at a higher blind level than a tournament with 60 minute levels.

As Steve brecher pointed out the change is smoke and mirrors.

The new one has a much smoother flow to it, but I didn't realize they had 2 300-600s in the "old" and only 1 in the "new". The cost per round on the old and new are nearly identical the first 4 levels. Nice try though.

you should ask them to start at 25k/50k blinds. fwiw i was pissed that they wouldn't let me late reg.

Need to add 250/500/50. Is anyone against that?

Adding that to the current setup would be ideal. I didn't realize they took out a level to add in 150-300

I still would've been out by just a hair if it counted. I have a $180k score on hendon mob that was really $250k+ (PCA Chop, I got 2nd which is what was reported, but I chopped heads up with decent lead and actually got more than the winner). I thought I could get that changed, but I've since learned that they will definitely go with the reported hendon mob amount, no chops counted, so I would've been out anyway. I heard Ocrowe and JCarver would've made it, but not sure. Either way, I think it's pretty absurd that a $1500 buyin with 21 people counts but not 4k+ field in $1k WSOP bracelet event. All open bracelet events should certainly count and I've yet to encounter one person besides Annie who disagrees.

The structure is perfectly fine, but the payout structure is pretty bad. Having 7th-9th getting paid the same thing is dumb (and might end up causing a tie for the final spots in the freeroll). Plus its just way too top heavy. First paying 1M and 7th getting 70k is absurd. Really not necessary to give like 35% or w/e to 1st.

"old structure"

100 200 (300 cost)
200 400 (600 cost)
300 600 (900 cost)
300 600 100 (1700 cost)
400-800 100

"new structure"
100 200 (300 cost)
150 300 25 (650 cost)
200 400 50 (1000 cost)
300 600 75 (1500 cost)
400 800 100


I really like having the $25 chips to smooth the level increases and help betsizing, but I agree with Todd Terry that this would be great with a 250-500 level 50 ante. This adds a whole 90 minutes to an event that will surely finish in 4 days regardless. 400-800 100 would be level 5 rather than level 4. All the opening levels would be meaningful without a 50% jump from 200 400 to 300 600.



As Steve Brecher noted, the costs per round are nearly identical, although you dont reach the dreaded 300 600 blinds until level 4. The prior setup had you at 300 600 on the third level.

Sounds like a real committment to listening to the players, if it was true (which I'm sure it's not - it smacks of the person who says smugly "I don't watch 'the boob tube'" while secretly frantically DVR'ing Jersey Shore). You'd think she'd have learned after her many years of endorsing UB in blissful ignorance.

chainsaw, serious question:

Would you sit at a hsnl cash game with 250bb with 5-7 sickos selected randomly from the list of cardholders? If not, why do you keep pushing for more deepstacked play?

Wowwwww

I was pretty tilted when I found out I was going to have to pay for a room the last day (day of final table) of my trip. I thought comped rooms meant comped for the whole stay? They said they could help with a discounted room but I was too disgruntled already and just stayed at Chewys fo free. To be fair, I was never going to get that day to stay as soon as I checked in. It was noted on the pamphlet my hotel keys were in etc. But still I emailed someone prior to my stay and said "through the 13th". Never got a "you won't get the last day response" so never bothered to check hotel info. /epic rant

of course he wouldn't, but he is going to play the tournament anyway and wants more bang for his buck.

Hard to get "bang for your buck" and to see the structure when you are out minutes into level two. Could have got a big price on the Chainsaw being the 2nd player out of the tournament.

.

THE DREAD PIRATE ROBERTS!

can we change kesslers undertitle to "nice try though"

Epic suggestion, thank you.

If I'm going to play it, I want meaningful levels throughout, without 50% jumps early. I just played the az state event, and was amazed how accomodating they were to my structure suggestions.

All several of want is one additional level early and no 50% jumps. That seems quite reasonable for an event of this buyin.

This tilted me too, among several other things.

They said rake free but it turned out to be 2%.
They said free complimentary rooms but forgott to mention its only as long as ur in the tournament.
They said 100$/day in vouchers at Palms. When I was playing day1 I heard that they were gonna hand out a 40$ voucher but never saw any vouchers/discounts.

Ended up paying 230$/night which is a joke considering what a dump the Palms has become.

wont be donating in future events simply because it all sounded better than it actually was

Sorry Pocket 9's I am not sure who you are by your screen name but if you are in the league you can always call Annie directly as you have her phone number. As you know 2 + 2 is a great place to air your issues and you know I support the forums, but if you are having any issue call her 1st and discuss to hopefully get immediate results.

The food vouchers were screwed up on day one there is no argument about that but the system has been corrected and was on day two. Players will now receive 5-$20 vouchers per day for future events.

The Palms rooms were fine IMO and I stayed there a few days during the tournament as well. Players receive free rooms while you are in the tournament and the night that you bust. Pro am winners also get free rooms while they are in the tournament.

Technically "rake" is what the casino keeps and a "service charge" is for dealers and staff. The 2% is to ensure that you get the best dealers and staff available which the players comments were VERY happy with from all that I heard. So there is no confusion the 2% is split 70%/30% in favor of the dealers. I myself get none of the money withheld and the staff 30% went to the Palms staff and to Sam Quinto who I brought in from Commerce. I do agree that the 2% while announced to the players was overlooked by some. I always want the dealers paid well to ensure that we get the best and so they come back to the next event if offered.

There is $2,600,000 being added in season one and something that has not been mentioned here is that 5% of profits (fingers crossed) which does not even include the 2.6 will be given back to the players as additional prize pool.

Bottom line I hope you reconsider because I think some of the things the Epic League are doing are hugely beneficial to the players involved.

PS you can always call me with any tournament questions or issues

Chainsaw, do you even realize that it benefits you the shallower the structure is in any EPL tournament?

While this is technically correct it really doesn't encourage a lot of trust in the league and its organisers. Didn't the original advertising say something like "the top players deserve to play in rake-free tournaments" ? Who would interpret that to mean "Rake free, but obviously there'd be a service charge, that's different". I certainly wouldn't.