Yah, yah I know I should stay away from the double shootouts, but I just can't resist. Villian was 30/8 I believe. Better to just shove PF here or is a raise OK? I figured with 2 overs and a gut shot I'd get the rest of his chips in. Played it OK or no?

Poker Stars $10.70+$1.00 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 4 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

SB: t3480
BB: t2700
CO: t2810
Hero (BTN): t6010

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with Q K
1 fold, Hero raises to t800, 1 fold, BB calls t600

Flop: (t1700) 9 J 4 (2 players)
BB bets t800, Hero raises to t5210 all in, BB calls t1100 all in

Turn: (t5500) 3 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t5500) 2 (2 players - 2 are all in)

You're behind on the flop but w/e you got him covered and have outs..

Raise less preflop, flop is okay you've prob got 10 outs and sometimes although rare, villain will fold.

Why less? Pot control I assume. IDK usually I go 3X, but I went 4X here for no real good reason.

If you raised less preflop you'd have more fold equity IMO

u did see that BB's flop lead committs him right? i only like the shove with some FE...here u have none. also raise less pre.

yeah, all streets played pretty bad, 3x PF is fine, you are risking too much with 4x, no reason to ever raise 4x except if it's really deep stacked, as played with him calling that much pf and leading he is not folding with that much in there, so i hate shoving the flop

3x pf. i think shoving is better than 4x and i don't like shoving this.

as played we have enough outs to just get it in. that's partly why the 4x raise is worse than shoving. we're getting it in or we aren't. raising to 4x just lowers the fe when it does go in. 3x gives us a better choice to not be trapped into the pot with no fe after the flop like here.

shoving is a 2:1 prop when we're called (which we are almost every time obv)

Before this hand gets buried forever, I ended up losing to BB's 89o and I went from a pretty commanding position to meh. I was trying to figure out how I could have avoided this without being too results oriented. I think Ophidion is right that a 3X raise appears almost stronger than a 4X, plus it keeps the pot smaller when called. As for you anti flop pushers, thanks for your input but I respectfully disagree, I know I have no fold equity, but I have 10 likely good outs. Why not get villians chips to ensure he doesn't clam up if a King comes. With his remaining stack I'm not folding the flop so why not just make him commit?

Finally, Villain made a big mistake PF and got lucky in out flopping me, then avoiding all of my outs. It happens sometimes. The catalyst for all of this was really the 4X not thinking raise. I think the moral of all this is think about your PF raise size and what it will mean to your villians if they decide to play along.

this should work out for u in the long run...getting it in always as a >3 to 2 dog. maybe when u start to understand EV/equity and their relationship to pot odds, u can change your name to "HappyJohnny"...

perhaps u took psyduck's april fools post seriously...

Look Bevis, I put in an extra $1900 to win a final pot of $5500. Ten outs is about 40% equity. If its a mistake, its not a horrible one. If your gonna be an a-hole in your replies, then don't reply to my posts. I'm interested in intelligent discussion only.

kinda sounds like you're interested in people agreeing with your -EV move here...but w/e...never pass up an opp to get it in as a small dog (since that's the way to build a stack...and increase your chance of winning it all.)

P.S. you sound like the guys who say "i play to win...not to cash"...lol

it's either too late/early and my brain ain't working or this makes no sense.

With the pot the size it was on flop, hero only needs ~34.5% to win to commit 1900 and break even. It's rare he's below that, with villain having a set unlikely (99 / JJ should shove pre.). Hero only has to worry about when he's cut to 9 or 7 outs (QJ, KJ, JT) on the flop, but his odds are still high enough from the times he has 10 clean outs (Like against 89o.).

I damn sure hope he does. Only first place advances in these, fool.

Thank god, someone that understands how a turbo double shootout works. You just made my day and moved into my personal "poster circle of trust"

Preflop is bad as everyone has said but once you've got to the flop then folding would be pretty bad and calling not much better. As bokunori said you only need 35% equity to get it in on the flop and against any reasonable range you're more like 40% (any range that includes QT you have enough equity against) so it doesn't matter that you have no fold equity.

Um, i'm pretty sure it works the other way round.

I believe he means fold equity with the shove on flop, though I doubt there is little, if any, fold equity against the actual villain in this hand preflop.

IDK...maybe all of the above...and FWIW i didn't expect u to get the reference...