hi guys, i have a question about a hand, and i wanna know what you players do in my place and if double barrel an shove all in is a good option here.

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $4 Buy-in (50/100 blinds, 10 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 4,642 (46.4 bb)
BB: 11,158 (111.6 bb)
UTG+1: 3,698 (37 bb)
UTG+2: 13,338 (133.4 bb)
MP1: 27,002 (270 bb)
MP2: 7,861 (78.6 bb)
Hero (MP3): 4,623 (46.2 bb)
CO: 5,000 (50 bb)
BTN: 4,623 (46.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q T
UTG+1 raises to 220, 3 folds, Hero calls 220, CO calls 220, 2 folds, BB calls 120

Flop: (1,020) 3 7 4 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets 599, CO folds, BB calls 599, UTG+1 folds

Turn: (2,218) 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero check or double barrel???

River: (2,218) K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero check, tripple barrel or all in???

To pull off a successful triple barrel bluff (if you're going to bluff the turn here, you should also bluff the river), you want to make sure (1) you have the range advantage and (2) villain likely doesn't have a strong hand.

You can't be sure of either in this spot because the flop is 4-way and the BB has a huge range advantage on that flop and turn. You have no idea if he's chasing a draw, turned a straight, or is slowplaying a set.

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I'd fold preflop. As played I'd check the flop. As played I'd check the turn. If you bet the turn? I'd check the river. If you checked the turn? I'd check the river.

this

Other than calling preflop (fold imo) I don’t actually mind how you played it. Your largish flop bet might take it down now, but even if it doesn’t, villain will almost always check turn, so flop bet buys you two cards to hit flush.
Only risk is if you get raised of your draw on flop, so checking all streets can’t be bad either.

Pre: 3b-bluff > flat > fold

Flop: Bet 1/3rd

Turn: Bet 2/3rd - 3/4th

River: Shove

Check that sh*t down all the way

Stop being nits

Yes this sounds like the 'correct' play in the long run but what about at your local $100BI and there's a fair bit of limping going on and not much 3betting after your call. Is it that bad to limp and get a flop like this and bet the flop hoping to get your flush your SD with a queen?

At your local tourney this seems like the type of hand where people win big on when they play hands like this.

Flat then that line is the biggest punt you can make.

Preflop: A call is perfectly fine. A fold here wouldn't be the worst, but it is too nitty for my game. I wouldn't 3 bet an early open with this hand unless I had a read he is a Lag who will fold when pressure is applied.

Flop: I like betting here. It's a good semi-bluff spot. But being multi-way, I prefer a slightly larger 650 - 700 maybe.

Turn: A good place to double barrel is when the turn card changes the value of hands from the previous street. The 8 here does not really do that. If the K hit the turn, instead of the river, I would like a double barrel. If your opponent has 7X, the 8 has a great cheance of improving that hands value as it is one of the cards often held along side the 7.

Especially, since the remaining opponent is one of the ones who can afford to call you down lighter. You can't threaten his stack in any big way here.

River: Not barreling the turn does reduce your chances to get a bluff catcher to fold here.

I think all streets make sense.

The small flop bet does multiple things: It can win the pot immediately, it sets up sizings for a good turn barrel/river jam, it puts the cutoff in an awkward spot with his mid pairs, if we get check-raised we can usually still call most sizings, if we get called in multiple spots then we can win a bigger pot if we hit, the preflop raiser usually has missed when he doesn't c-bet, if we get called in one spot they will usually check to us on the turn, etc. The problem with a bigger sizing on this flop is that when we barrel the turn, our river shove doesn't have much weight to it and will get looked up by one pair hands more often.

While the turn isn't the greatest card, it's not as bad as it looks. A bigger bet puts pressure on his gutshots, weak pairs, weak pair/gutshot combos, ace highs, weaker flush draws, etc. It also sets up a solid river shove which should get most one pair hands to fold.

On the river, we still have Kx in our range whereas the BB doesn't have many. Villain is usually capped at 7x after check-calling turn, while we still have every set but KK, straights, two pair, etc. A near pot sized bet targets all of his weak hands which he should mainly have here.

I don't think it's terrible, but if I'm utg+1?:

You don't beat a single hand in my opening range. You're either crushed or flipping. Not an advantageous spot imo.

We're 37bb deep effective (and deeper with the players behind). Why do I need to be ahead of your opening range to call or 3bet bluff? I'm trying to outflop or outplay you with an extremely playable hand and I won't lose much when I flop 1 pair.

I lean towards 3bet-fold with QTs. Even vs. a tight UTG opening range of 13%, we need to have some bluffs to balance our value 3bets (JJ+, AK). QTs is a perfect candidate IMO. Some other good candidates would be A2s-A5s, AJo, KQo, maybe KTs, etc. I'm also flatting with a ton of other playable hands. Since I'm flatting most of my suited broadways, I like throwing in a hand like QTs as a 3bet-fold, just so I have a couple suited broadways in my 3b range.

If you are only 3 betting for value, that's pretty easy to play against.

There are four other players still in the hand. If I saw you calling QTs in this spot, then I would squeeze often. I think calling is just slightly -ev in a vaccum, so I don't think it's horrible by any means.

This gets thrown around often, but I disagree. You can be very difficult to play against by 3 betting often in this spot, but difficult to play against doesn't always equate to the most profits.

Let's simplify the problem:

utg+1 raises. This should be quite a tight range. Let's put ourselves in utg+1's shoes and you see someone call or 3 bet with QTs in this spot. Are you worried about this? Are you happy about this?

I'm not worried at all about this. I'm actually thrilled.

Unless the UTG opener is as loose as I am UTG, then people aren't going crazy squeezing here. Also, I usually 3bet QTs here, so anyone who 4 bets vs me and the UTG raiser isn't going to be bluffing.

Whether or not they bluff squeeze isn't the problem here. The problem is exactly that there are four players yet to act that have not revealed any information about their hands yet, in addition to the utg+1 player that has a stronger hand than QTs.

I'm happy when people flat and 3bet vs. my UTG opening range, too. I like playing post. But, I guarantee I'm making more bb/100 by having a decent flat range and balanced 3bet range vs. even a tight UTG opener than I would if I only 3 bet for value (and folded hands like QTs). It's not even close. Same goes for all the regs who have balanced 3 bet ranges vs UTG, etc. They are all making more in these spots than the tight players only 3 betting for value.

Then I'm going to force those players to do something (and most won't because low stakes players over-fold). If anyone wakes up, I just fold, unless their 4 bet is on the smaller side. The UTG player is usually only 4 betting QQ?/KK+, AK, so most of his hands are flatting or folding to my 3bet. I'm fine with 3bet-folding when he 4 bets. I want people to know I have a few 3 bet folds, so my value 3 bets get paid by regs in the future. Against unknowns or fish, I'm happy calling. People aren't squeezing enough in these spots in low stakes to make QTs an auto fold. You're also assuming everyone is super tight UTG. I am opening wider than any 180 or low stake reg I have in my database. I have a good bb/100 from EP and I'm opening the widest (or at least one of the widest as far as I know). The reason I'm able to open that much and get away with it is because people aren't 3 bet bluffing enough and are over-folding. Because of this, I have a good estimate on how often I will be 4 bet by all players combined in this spot (and how often I will have to fold). After knowing this, I know that clicking reraise with QTs in this spot makes a profit longterm regardless of whatever happens after in this particular hand.

That's all good as long as you are able to recognize that calling or 3 betting here is an exploit that takes advantage of the passivity of small stakes games. I think the higher you play, the more likely you are to lose chips and tourney ev by playing this hand.

I'm always trying to exploit in these types of games. But, even in higher stakes games, everything is stat dependent in these spots and I'm still at least calling in most cases, unless I know for sure the players behind me are super aggro. PIO will still have you calling or 3betting vs. UTG here. Depending on the exact UTG opening %, calling or 3bet-bluffing is the GTO play.

It isn't a good line to take because it is so face up. We are repping overpairs, sets, flush draws and strong 7x. But we wouldn't be flatting 7x in early position and we didn't three bet so we don't have much overpairs. So we are playing this pretty face up.

We're in the HJ, not EP, so I can have some 7x here for sure. I agree that I would mostly be 3 betting JJ+, but I will also show up with 99/TT a lot and I will occasionally mix in flats with JJ depending on stack sizes, opening ranges, etc. I will once in awhile also have AA here as a trap if players behind me are aggressive. I usually 3bet A2s and A5s preflop, so my only bluffs are a few combos of club flush draws. I'm not weighted towards bluffs here at all, quite the opposite when you break down my range.

You're not really taking villain's range here into account, either. After check-calling the turn, he almost never has nutted hands (2 pair+). The majority of his range is weak one pair hands that can't stand pressure on the river. Do you really think he's calling a jam with Q3s, A5o, 54o, every 7x, etc.? Bottom line is on the river, his range is super weak (usually at best A7 - 3rd pair top kicker or a random weak 8 like 85), and my range is filled with strong hands and very few missed club draws as bluffs.

First of all, you need to open your 3-betting range probably all the way to 88+ otherwise your 3-bet range is just way too exploitable.

And secondly what hands are you betting all three streets with, sets, KK, AA, busted flush draws and straight draws, some made river hands such as KJcc, KTcc and KQcc (AK 3-bets preflop, and KT is pretty wide flat and probably also should 3-bet KQ, so this range is extra wide) and the rare 78s. Your value hands here make up only 27 combos, and that is on the generous side.

I put together a range of just busted flush draws, Q8+, J8+, T8+, 97+, 86+, 76. This makes up 15 combos as it and I didn't even account for any Ax because you said you 3-bet those pre. Not to mention there is also straight draws that missed, 5x, 6x, T9, J9, JT. We just have way too little value combos here.

Now we account for his pot odds using your own sizings (2/3 pot on the turn), we get a bet off 1464. Villain makes the call with his 7x and 8x (he could also be slow playing his big hands because hero has a small SPR) and now the pot is 5146 and hero is left with 2340 chips. We jam that in on the river and villain only needs ~31% to call. Using the combos from earlier and assuming he loses to all our value hands and beats our bluffs (which is not true, he can still have some of our value hands beat) he has roughly ~36%. So even if he calls off with the bottom of his range (7x) hes still making a profit in this spot. That is why this is a punt.