Let’s say I’m at a final table with all live fish and they want to chop. It’s clear that I’m a much stronger player.

How much above the ICM payout can I ask for? 10%? 50%?

You can ask for whatever you want. I'd say if you hid what the actual ICM values were and lied about them to inflate your payout would be super scummy. But if you say I don't want to chop, here are the ICM payouts but if you insist, I want x. It's your prerogative.

If the casino is providing the ICM amounts then you can ask for more than you are entitled to but the other payers may not agree to it. Fish don't always know they are fish. About 70% of Americans think they are better than average at their jobs...

Typically in that situation I am hesitant to chop and am offered a better deal than I am supposed to get. Once in a three way chop at the Borgota the players agreed to an even split when I was short stacked (I did not ask for an even split the chip leader offered it). The chip leader said he wanted to go home and it was 2am but the truth was I had a read on him and called down all of his bluffs (and folded when he had me beat). In another 3 way chop I got $1,000 less than the other two players ($13,000, $13,000, $12,000) when they both had twice my stack. Again not my offer.

If there are any "fish" with less than 12 blinds I won't chop. I'll wait until they are eliminated or have exceeded 12 blinds (sometimes 15 blinds depending on how bad they are).

I typically don't chop unless there are fewer than 5 players but there are exceptions. Once at Mohegan Sun they paid 18 players. We were down to 17 and I was short stack (just having lost an all in preflop with AK vs AQ). The two chip leaders who had roughly 5 times my stack offered an even chop to all 17 players. We all accepted it... lol

I never take deals that are unfair to me. I often take deals that are fair to everyone. But if I have reads on one or more players or know what makes them a fish then I just say no to the deal and explain that I need the practice playing shorthanded at a final table. On more than one occasion I have won the tournament (or ended in a two way chop).

In one case at Foxwoods, Ronnie Bardoh's father offered to chop evenly when we were HU and he had more chips because it was going to say #1 on his payout card and he wanted his son (WSOP bracelet winner) to see that he had won a tournament. In spite of the fact that I probably would have beaten him, I took the chop so he could "win" the tournament and he thanked me. It was a proud moment for him and I was happy for him.

The other thing to take into consideration is if the payouts are >$5,000 net. I pay taxes on my poker earnings (schedule C) so I am going to pay taxes anyway but most players want to make <$5,000 net so the IRS isn't given a statement by the casino. I have received more than I was supposed to as a result so that all other players could stay under $5,000 payout. Once I had to give the second place player $100 cash...

I also won't chop at casinos that don't change their payouts. You have to rely on the players that finished ahead of you to distribute their winnings after collecting them and I have heard tell of players who have left the casino with their full payout.

So it doesn’t seem like 50% or 100% over ICM is unreasonable—just have to feel the other players out.

I like playing tournaments out bc most live players are very inexperienced short handed late in a tournament and will allow you to just smash them with aggression and smart small ball type play where you can play somewhat risky without going overboard and punting- aka people tighten up and tend not to do irrational plays.

If I’m at a table with good players- sure I’m more inclined to chop. I would say ask for more than icm if you think you are better. How much is up to you but you will be lold at if you ask for some obscene amount over icm.

Im not a fan if short stacks exist. I would rather just let them bust naturally and increase the chop value. Idk at a FT, the payouts tend to be good so if I finish 2nd or 3rd with say 4 left- I’m not going to be mad if I turned down a chop. Normally, it’s best to act like you don’t want to chop and let them come at you with an offer that you may be able to exploit. If you get more than icm, in my book that is a win. Just don’t act like you want to chop bc it increases your bargaining leverage.


Final note- I don’t understand why people chop most of the time. I like to win tournies (duh). I think my 2-4 handed play is going to be better than most due to an online background + fact I was coached and even ghosted way back at final tables by an online crusher. (This was full tilt days). Heads-up- I think people are totally clueless on what to do bc they don’t have that background. Even 3 handed you can massively exploit people looking for a pay jump. I like playing it out. Example- I finished 4th in a $400 in Buffalo for 9k. 9k isn’t chump change. Im sure the chop was 18k. It wasn’t discussed as one player was really good at ft (not me). I was totally fine with it. Idk if 2 of the players are meh and are older guys without that online background/ I’m not chopping. I think I lost jj to aq after aipf and flipping a set and losing to runner runner straight. That’s poker. I got 9k which was cool. Getting 18k to me in a chop when 2 players stink is not my idea of how a poker tourny should end. If I win flip late, I’m prollly favorite to win and finish 2nd or better a very high % of time. I just believe in playing it out unless we are super short (say average stack is 15-20bb). Idk I just think there is such a skill advantage that can be taken when folks don’t have that experience short handed.

Another example- a guy offered to chop earlier this year for a wsop event. Guy was older white guy and I said sure if I get ring. I had 8 mill to his 3. We were going to icm but he said no he wanted ring. He got the chip lead and me down to 3 mill. I still won haha! Idk if you have a big skill advantage over a player- just play it out. If we are heads up and I have 60% of chips and think I will win 65-70%+ of the time, no way in hell am I chopping.

A lot to me depends upon how high the blinds get. Are you playing Bingo with the big stack being 10BB and the small stacks 3 or less or are you still playing poker.