Alright this is gonna be a bit lengthy but I need to write this down while I remember it all in clear details. This might not be a smart post to make by me, I might be burning some bridges, get unpopular with some people or even banned from the casino (this sounds absurd, but after you have read what I have to say it might not seem so far fetched).
For the last couple of days I have been playing the Partouche Poker events at the Palm Beach casino in France. In those days I have seen or heard about the following incidents:
1) Jordankickz and Tmay420 had signed up for day 1 but were removed from it because a bunch of pros including Matusow arrived last minute and decided to play day 1 instead of day 2 and since there was a cap on day 1 jordankickz and tmay got booted so the pros could play. The tournament director offered them a meal at a nice restaurant as compensation.
2) I have several times seen french players showing each other their cards as they mucked as the last person in the hand without the dealer forcing them to show. I have heard of several times during the tournament where non-french players have done the same thing and has been forced to show their hand.
3) A danish player went on break on day 1 with 43k in chips and had 33k when he got back. They had noted the chip counts right before the break and checked the cameras afterwards yet nothing was done about it.
Everyone else who has been here probably has their own story to add and while nothing of this is very relevant to the story it should give you an idea of what kind of casino we are dealing with.
So on to the incident in question that happened a couple of hours into todays sideevent. My table consists of Michael Binger, Jonathan (rookiekkqq), an unknown non-french guy and five french players.
A french player and the unknown is in a huge hand on a 2238r board. French guy leads out for 2k, non-french guy makes it 5,7k and the french guy makes to 13k leaving around 20k behind effective.
After non-french guy has tanked for a minute an older french guy calls the clock on him and the dealer agrees that he has sufficient time for his decision. Floorman comes over and without saying a word starts clocking him.
When there is ten seconds left he starts the countdown and I protest telling him that he should count in english instead of french since the guy clearly dosen't speak the language. Floorman goes "trois, two, one" and between the two and one the non-french guy throws in a pile of 5k chips putting the other player all-in. Other guy SNAPmucks putting his hand over the line and after five seconds or so the non-french player turns over A7o for a complete bluff, and this is where things starts to get crazy.
After staring at the board for like 5 seconds the french player now puts his hand BEHIND the line again and claims that the other guys hand is dead because he didn't react in time and the floorman counted to zero, which is obviously total bull**** since the floorman didn't say a word.
Me and Binger starts protesting but all of a sudden the four other french players at the table AND the floorman agrees that his hand is dead and starts stacking the pot up and shipping it to the french player. Me, Jonathan, Binger and the non-french guy all starts protesting loudly and appealing to call someone with more authority because the ruling is terrible and downright cheating. Four-five men in suits comes over and discusses the hand for 10 minutes in french (none of them speaks english) and even though we try to argue and protest they somehow rule that the french player now has the option to call off his chips AFTER seeing his opponents bluff! The guy calls with ATo (he was NEVER trying to induce with that trust me) and the river is a 6 giving him the pot.
At this point we are are absolutely furious and Binger says that it's the most obvious angle he has seen in 10 years of live play and that he wants his money back if they are gonna allow cheating in the casino. At this point EVERY table in the room is watching us and with Binger being the most vocal of us the floormen refuses to answer any of our questions and they end up escorting Binger out of the room.
A couple of minutes after we go on break and I find Binger who has gotten his buy-in refunded and a ban from the casino (not sure for how long) simply for speaking his mind. When I return to the table after the break the french player is missing and I ask a floorman (they are still watching our table closely since me and Jonathan are not willing to let this go) why Binger and french guy are both missing.
He tells me that Binger has been disqualified (but gives me no further elaboration when I ask) and that the french player got a 14 minute penalty. I try to ask them what rule the penalty is for but they wont tell me but I keep insisting and shouting louder until finally one floorman whispers in my ear that it isn't for breaking any rule but for "unsportsmanlike conduct".
I ask them how they can give a penalty to someone they just ruled in favor of but they just keep on ignoring me.
Conveniently enough they decide to break our table as the next because me and Jonathan were still speaking about it (even though we weren't even close to being next in breaking order).
It's also worth noting that Ruben had a hand that was ruled the exact opposite in the same event where his french opponent threw his cards into the muck on the river faceup and was afterwards allowed to call after Ruben said he had a bluff. I don't remember exactly how it went down though so hopefully Ruben will chime in and tell the story.
I don't really expect anything to come out of this but I feel like people should be aware of how (non-french) players are being treated here and I really needed to vent while it was still fresh in my memory. It turned out to be a long post so I might have messed up some of the details, if you have any clarifying questions feel free to ask.
Last edited by mement_mori; 09-04-2010 at 10:08 PM.
Alright this is gonna be a bit lengthy but I need to write this down while I remember it all in clear details. This might not be a smart post to make by me, I might be burning some bridges, get unpopular with a lot or people or even banned from the casino (this sounds absurd, but after you have read what I have to say it might not seem so far fetched).
That is so absurd... ridiculous.
Re the bolded section, will you ever go back anyway?
I dunno who you think you'd be burning bridges with but good post, not really surprised to hear this tbh even though I isn't see anything like it last year. They definitely care more about $ than integrity, last year they banned winimax pros from playing the night before or something because they are competitors w partouche, I forget how it was resolved
Edit: WTF are you talking about serve volley, might wanna delete that post
Last edited by NHFunkii; 09-04-2010 at 10:21 PM.
Reason: psychos itt
stupid internet players not knowing poker in france is rigged. srsly tho almost every time ive played in france the home players have always a huge advantage with the floor. granted i dont have a huge sample and the good time was ept deuville where i was sure the TD would make correct decisions.
fwiw i remember stuart rutter telling me some story about partouche 2 yrs ago, where there was obv blatant cheating but u need to speak french (and almost def be french) to have a chance of winning a decision.
i wish i was living back in the 80's again, i would shoot them all. One day, there will be a mass murder at a poker event. Sorry to announce it but it will happen, I hope no-one from 2+2 is at that event. /continue on folks.
didn't think anything could be more absurd itt than the OP
this is really disturbing Mickey. If nothing is done, a boycott should be taken into consideration
Last edited by M1cKmAcK; 09-04-2010 at 10:31 PM.
Excellent and hugely necessary post. One thing not mentioned is that before this incident even happened I had nicknamed the French player in question "Fake Bakes" due to his uncanny resemblance to young David Baker. In addition, although this is the first tournament series I have played in France, can definitely confirm that French-speaking players have a huge edge in any floor decision as I had a player who was tanking in the BB against my shove with 3 tables left in a 20,000 dhirham side event at WPT Marrakech last October who called after the floorman had said, "un" and they ruled it a call. Even before the hands were turned over I protested that he said "call" too late and they sided with him, obv. Defintely extremely unlikely(for both this and other reasons) to go back to any event in Marrakech even though was quite likely the softest 5K+ buyin tourney ever run.
In my hand i minraised a JT423 board on the river (guy bet 1500 in 3 500 chips, i put in 3 1ks). He threw his hand open across the line in a way ppl frequently open fold. I now kinda flash my Q9 to JustLuck who's calling out show the bluff. It turns out the French guy thought i flatted and now wants to call my raise, the dealer is fine with that, I'm obv not. I make the dealer call a floor over and the first one says that his hand is still live and he's allowed to call but decides that doesn't make sense as the guy knows my hand. The 2nd floor now comes over and rules that I have to call the guys bet. I refuse to either pay or muck my hand and insist on a different ruling as I would just be setting myself and other ppl up for rly easy angle shoots. The third floor, who I'm pretty sure is one of the highest tournament staff instantly rules that villains hand is dead when he hears the story and I win the pot.