Can someone explain this concept? Bencb twitter post - MTT Poker Strategy

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Can someone explain this concept? Bencb twitter post

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02-22-2024 , 03:49 PM

pokerArgentina94

stranger

Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 12

"Doing low-frequency chEV 3bets to be balanced shows you don't understand how Tournament Poker works."

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02-22-2024 , 05:15 PM

Bubblebust

adept

Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 830

I am guessing here. But I think he is trying to state you need to account for ICM in tournaments -- i.e., the +cEV 3-bet part. What I'm still trying to figure out is what the general statement about low-frequency +cEV 3 bets has to do with ICM Z(i.e., $EV). I would think this is context specific. But maybe someone understands this better than me..

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02-22-2024 , 06:56 PM

pokerArgentina94

stranger

Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblebust

I dont think is related to ICM at all, the only thing i can think is some related to not needing to be balanced with 3bet frecuencies in tournaments accounting only chEV, but the state of the tournament, effective stacksize and opponent, but is just a guess.

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02-22-2024 , 09:39 PM

Mr Rick

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,076

I think what he is saying is low frequency 3-bets are a terrible idea even if you justify it by being balanced.

In other words you need to have a substantial number of not so strong 3-bets like A5s and 65s along with your TT+/AQ+ range. It can include AJ and 99 but it mostly is SC and AXs type hands.

It will mean you will have a high frequency of 3-bets. And your preflop edge may not be +EV as much but because you are in position you will win a lot of hands you start out behind and when you lose it should be not nearly as much as you win.

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02-23-2024 , 01:50 AM

pokerArgentina94

stranger

Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Rick

Yes it has to be this!, i don't see any other explanation

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02-23-2024 , 11:56 AM

Bubblebust

adept

Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 830

But that explanation holds true for casdh games as well. And ICM is the key difference between cash and tournaments. (The other big difference is playing at a lot of different SPRs -- particularly shallower ones). And the quote is quite clear he is only talking about how tournament poker works/

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02-23-2024 , 12:01 PM

3for3poker

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,506

I think the key difference is that most tournament poker is played at 30-50 effective chip stacks, where board coverage is less important in 3! pots.

Being able to have 6x on 663 boards just doesn't matter when the SPR is 2.

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02-23-2024 , 12:38 PM

ledn

MTTLivePro

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,108

I think he is just trying to say that balance for balance's sake at an MTT table where you are unlikely to play with most of the those players very often is silly. So making your strategy harder to implement accurately for the sake of balance is especially silly. Its not going to matter whether you 3bet A5s pure or 3bet A2s-A5s at 25%, as long as your global frequencies are generally in line.

Cash games are different because you are going to play many hands with the regs and if they know that your 3bet range is more simplified then they are going to able to exploit you on some runouts where you dont have the board coverage that you should.

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02-23-2024 , 12:55 PM

pokerArgentina94

stranger

Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3for3poker

So basically if spr is 2 on a 3b board you shouldn't have 6x probably in the first place? assuming opponents are decent and its not a resteal attempt

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02-23-2024 , 01:09 PM

#10

3for3poker

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,506

It's not so much that you shouldn't have it. It's more that you don't need it. An overpair is plenty good to play for stacks on that board with an SPR of 2. If the SPR is, say, 10, you need to have board coverage, so having some A6/76/65 in your range becomes more important.

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02-23-2024 , 01:11 PM

#11

pokerArgentina94

stranger

Join Date: May 2023 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledn

Yes this whas somehow my first tought, balance for the sake of balance is just stupid, i think alot of people thinks this way, i listened alottt of times people playing tournaments and saying "now i 3bet for balance"

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02-23-2024 , 01:17 PM

#12

Bubblebust

adept

Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 830

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledn

I think that it it!

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02-24-2024 , 12:00 PM

#13

3for3poker

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,506

It also seems like he is suggesting a more linear range, which is probably better for a lot of tournament spots anyway. As stacks get smaller, having 3! bluffs without blockers isn't really vital. I haven't looked at the differences, so I am guessing here from my general knowledge, but I'd be pretty sure we do 3! more linearly CO/HJ for example, at 30BB instead of 80BB

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02-25-2024 , 07:39 AM

#14

MacLucky

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 28

Randomly 3betting is silly, but have a good reason. E.g. if you're new to the table find a light 3bet against LP asap. First time you set your image. Next time you stack him, because nobody makes 2 hero folds in a row...

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03-07-2024 , 07:07 AM

#15

jayme87

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,496

probably because of villains reaction to our 3bets compared to gto are sub optimal. which makes our hands that prefer calling more profitable 3bets

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03-09-2024 , 05:48 PM

#16

timchuk

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,523

I remember back in the day 3 bet strategy was polorized/depolorized then GTO came along and some linear 3bet ranges changed.

What would you guys recommend in MTT tournaments? Stacks get shallow fast so more push/fold spots of course but what type of 3 bet strategy has been working good for you ?

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