Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
I assume the flop was j10x if you had a gutter. Mr Rick do you call off on the flop or shove if villain checks?
I check back. I don't bet if there is no side pot unless I have hit the flop. Knocking out the Villain can win us the pot if we are ahead of the all in guy but trying to do it with a bluff is risky because if he calls with a pair we are screwed. Also, on the flop it may be worth it for Villain to call if he has a straight draw because of the pot odds and we are allowing him to pair up in some cases which means we aren't even the favorite (like if he has 98s or Q9s where yes a Q gives us the win but if a Q hits we are all getting it in anyway). Also we don't know if there is a flush draw which makes it even worse because with a flush draw and any type of straight draw Villain isn't folding but won't bet unless he hits.
I have seen a few times where a guy knocked out another player with no side pot and lost to the original raiser.
My best memory though was at Foxwoods in a $300 tournament where we were 4-way in a pot like this and I flopped a nut straight. A really bad player in early position shoved with a straight draw and was knocked out by me. He wouldn't have beaten the all in player anyway so it was all for nought.
Typically in these spots it will check through all streets unless Villain has top pair or better. Even then it sometimes checks through.
In fairness in a satellite to a $330 Commerce $1,000,000 guarantee tourney, I folded to a guy on the turn when he jammed all in when I had top pair and a flush draw because the turn card made a straight and I was fairly sure the guy had a monster (he had raised pre-flop in EP). Had I jammed the flop (which I absolutely should have done) I don't know if he would have called but I would have won. He had a pair and a worse flush draw and he won the pot. So sometimes the jam does work. But I think having a pair is critical even if it isn't top pair.