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Call Down 2Pair Here? Call Down 2Pair Here?

10-08-2018 , 10:46 PM
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 30/60 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 179.37 BB (VPIP: 19.54, PFR: 10.98, 3Bet Preflop: 3.08, Hands: 175)
MP: 335.35 BB (VPIP: 27.93, PFR: 18.92, 3Bet Preflop: 9.30, Hands: 111)
MP+1: 188.48 BB (VPIP: 25.97, PFR: 17.03, 3Bet Preflop: 7.12, Hands: 1,043)
CO: 152.3 BB (VPIP: 24.51, PFR: 13.82, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 256)
BTN: 171.05 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 11)
SB: 174.42 BB (VPIP: 25.14, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 8.39, Hands: 697)
Hero (BB): 163.95 BB
UTG: 155.57 BB (VPIP: 18.96, PFR: 13.96, 3Bet Preflop: 8.67, Hands: 755)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.57 BB) Hero has T 9

fold, fold, MP raises to 3.68 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3.68 BB, fold, Hero calls 2.68 BB

Flop: (12.62 BB, 3 players) 7 3 9
Hero checks, MP checks, BTN bets 8.82 BB, Hero calls 8.82 BB, fold

Turn: (30.25 BB, 2 players) T
Hero checks, BTN bets 22.95 BB, Hero calls 22.95 BB

River: (76.15 BB, 2 players) K
Hero checks, BTN bets 83.32 BB, Hero calls 83.32 BB


This hand gave me a lot of trouble in-game and in review. I feel like there a questionable decision points on almost every street, specifically turn and river. On turn, do you x/call or x/raise? On river: x/call, x/fold, bet/fold?
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-09-2018 , 01:45 AM
I like your play so far, you are deep stacked enough that I like your flat on this turn. Sometimes you can check-raise and decent size river bet vs calling stations and fishy players.
Pros to calling river: you are very under-repped. Villain has only a few value hands that play this way. You beat all missed flush draws, qj unlikely to bet flop here, unless its exactly qsjs. You block 2 sets, and you even beat 79 that bombed river for thin value because you are underrepped.
Cons to calling: it takes balls to 3 barrel bluff missed flush draws and not every player will do it. Even then, some times being on the button vs 2 checks, people can't help themselves. Sucks when you pay off 33 and 77. Damn gutshot and runner runner straights too. I lose more to gutshots cus I don't believe, but its hard to put people on those only.
Verdict-lean towards calling vs unknown. His big sizing looks like he wants you to fold. If he more then potted river with set or turned gutshot or unlikely qj, props to villain for a well played/ lucky hand. He bet so much that you happen to have one of the only hands you can call off psb. His bet loses value in almost every other case, so good for him.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-09-2018 , 09:40 AM
I think I would go for a x/r on the turn.

He's not going to have overpairs in his range because he would have 3b pre, and I don't see him with any straights either. So value hands are likely limited to 33/77/TT. The question is whether he would play a spade draw this way given he wasn't the preflop raiser. If we can't put busted draws in his range, I don't see many hands you beat here.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-09-2018 , 12:50 PM
Can’t really see myself folding here. We’re at the very top of our range with decent blockers to some of his value hands. You have to consider the fact that you probably don’t have many better hands as they should often raise flop or turn given how deep you are. I personally do not like the turn raise as Villain is kind of polarizing himself with these big sizes so I’d much rather x/c line all the way. It’s also nice to know that when you get to this river and he bets big you can actually have something that isn’t just a 1 pair hand or a lucky two pair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
I think I would go for a x/r on the turn.

He's not going to have overpairs in his range because he would have 3b pre, and I don't see him with any straights either. So value hands are likely limited to 33/77/TT. The question is whether he would play a spade draw this way given he wasn't the preflop raiser. If we can't put busted draws in his range, I don't see many hands you beat here.
If you limit his value range to sets it seems rather ambitious to be raising for value as we are actually not beating any of his value hands and I'd expect we would set most players in a tough spot with a hand like T9 if we raised turn and shoved on a blank river, which makes me think that it's much better to bluff catch when villain bets this big on turn as we give him a chance to actually bluff.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-14-2018 , 11:06 PM
I would fold here. Looks like a set to me. Hes shoving for way too many BBs.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-15-2018 , 12:45 AM
Unless villain is a maniac I am folding here as well. Consider calling if this was at $55 level plus. At the micros I think this is a set or jack eight here. That been said if had evidence that villain had been bluffing a ton I would call, but the average micro villain no.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-15-2018 , 02:14 AM
Im fine to lead flop sometimes here.

As played, turn is fine as a call imo, lets keep his range as wide as possible going into river play.

Not folding river to IP player here when he has bluffs in his polarised range. He can have missed spades and some straight draws like 56 etc. We need to pick some hands to call down with and this is high enough up in our range imo.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-15-2018 , 11:45 AM
Okay with all the players saying to call. Villain can also have sometimes value hands that he overrep : AA, AKs.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-15-2018 , 12:06 PM
I don't understand why so many of you are quick to put busted draws in his range. Remember, he wasn't the preflop raiser and the flop is multiway. It would be highly unusual for someone to suddenly take the initiative and fire two 2/3 pot bullets with a draw in this spot.

I don't know if I could make a fold myself but I think we're never good here.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-15-2018 , 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
I don't understand why so many of you are quick to put busted draws in his range. Remember, he wasn't the preflop raiser and the flop is multiway. It would be highly unusual for someone to suddenly take the initiative and fire two 2/3 pot bullets with a draw in this spot.

I don't know if I could make a fold myself but I think we're never good here.
Did you mean to say that you would x/fold river in your previous post ITT?
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-15-2018 , 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Maul
I don't understand why so many of you are quick to put busted draws in his range. Remember, he wasn't the preflop raiser and the flop is multiway. It would be highly unusual for someone to suddenly take the initiative and fire two 2/3 pot bullets with a draw in this spot.

I don't know if I could make a fold myself but I think we're never good here.
How is it highly unusual for someone to semibluff their draw?
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-15-2018 , 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wowsooooted
How is it highly unusual for someone to semibluff their draw?
That's not quite what I said.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-15-2018 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SetSetter
Did you mean to say that you would x/fold river in your previous post ITT?
No I was basically thinking out loud. My initial instinct was to x/r the turn but as I thought through it o realized it was a bad spot. Didn't bother to edit the post.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote
10-16-2018 , 05:28 AM
If we're flatting the turn I don't think the K changes enough that we should be folding on the river. If it were later in the tournament and we had a smaller stack I would say c/raise the turn but at this stage with our stack calling on the turn is fine and I think on this river card we pretty much have to call his bet. He needs to be bluffing appox 1/3 for this to be profitable. He might not be bluffing quite that much in this situation but enough to justify a call given we had already called the turn and not much changed on the river.
Call Down 2Pair Here? Quote

      
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