Chuck, relax. The point of reopening this thread for the time being is that whatever will be done in the coming days, there is no reason for this thread to be down in the meantime because having it down only serves to stifle discussion. This isn't the last thing we're going to do with respect to this situation, discussion is ongoing in the mod forum and presumably elsewhere among the people that are more involved with this situation than I am. But in the meantime, it didn't make sense for this thread to be closed and discussion to be stifled.

Ha! I remember him doing that to me as well. It was his way of lightening the mood I guess, when you'd be "fml ft bubble" and he'd say GG! and I could just image his face when he's typing it.

That's just not true, but whatever, it's your mess now and now I get to popcorn.gif it as much as the next spectator. I mean, the thread was closed because there were false accusations flying around and there was a massive witch hunt with no evidence going on. Now you decided to open it without addressing any of those and on top of that not posting any instructions for people where to post their evidence to (if you thought people are just going to post it itt with their own accounts you are clueless). If I came to this thread now I'd have no idea who to contact if I knew about someone cheating. I would pretty much just make sure 2+2 is the last place where I'd post it as this is a gigantic mess and reopening also makes it worse although hopefully what I posted above helps a bit.

I'd understand someone saying that maybe closing it in the first place wasn't the best move as it was just effectively silencing people. But it was done to buy some time and to come up with a more professional approach. Or so I thought. Now getting it reopened without any kind of notice has led to the whole closing being entirely pointless. What was gained from the closure? Do people have any more reason to believe any accusations posted itt? They probably have even less of an idea who to contact now and what to make of anything posted in the last ~5 pages because you chose to address none of it.

i was backed by mement longer than almost anyone, another confirmation that ive seen countless times where he doesnt say anything during a hand and berates the **** out of someone(ie ME) after the fact.

yea this is a mess. did anyone connect the galen and morans accounts other than a) Galen is someone good (and famous) who didn't move and b) the morans account is clearly being multiaccounted by SOMEONE. Given how much morans played, I have a hard time imagining someone getting a Stanford MBA is grinding out the Monday Mayhem but maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, it would be nice to see some of the evidence for this stuff but as long as Stars gets it, that's more important. Still can't believe morans is still playing 1.5 (!) weeks later including a 40k score in the sunday 500 last week lol

I can confirm I've never been backed by mickey petersen, nor has he ever played any poker on my behalf (as evidenced by my results)

Want to reiterate this excellent point going forward.

If you want to commentate on the accusations/evidence, do it from your personal account.

chuck for mttc mod

The thing I have been wondering for as long as this thread has been going is what chuck pointed out, ie. how is anyone going to show "proof" of anything without referring to chat logs or otherwise to people who have first hand knowledge of ghosting/VPN? Having the ghostbuster account people carefully go through what they have learned and then out people and say you got it from multiple sources without naming them could be ok if its done really carefully but it should be info that is very very solid. However, i think this thread is going to end up in a **** slinging mayhem. I understand that a lot of grinders who have an interest in having a level playingfield are frustrated, but I feel that as long as the people who have first hand knowledge of things are not willing to come forward there isnt that much that can be done without putting innocent peoples reputations at stake. mlagoos post today seems to say that you can post stuff as long as you have something that vaguely resembles proof. Really?

I think that you guys have too low an opinion of your fellow 2p2ers' ability to parse the quality of information they are being provided. I don't think anyone reading this thread is going to come away with it feeling that they've been provided any legitimate reasons to believe that either Galen or Mickey are engaged in anything untoward, because they've both explicitly denied it and the only accusations made against them were "come on, they must have!" When you shine a light on these accusations and allow the accused to confront them and call them ridiculous and allow the rest of the community to see that they're ridiculous, people are able to tell the difference between that and more substantive allegations.

I might be wrong. If the consensus is that having this thread open (while we wait for the administrator's disposition about what we are able to do as moderators w/r/t "outing") is more destructive than helpful (which is most of what I'm hearing since it opened, as opposed to only hearing about the injustice of it being closed when it was closed), then I'm fine with shutting it down again. Nothing was broken permanently by reopening it and nothing would be broken permanently by closing it again. Ultimately we're all just trying to help. Feel free to give your thoughts.

... as a matter of fact, the more I think about it, having unnamed people out people based on info from unnamed people without anyone being responsible doesnt seem like such a great idea either. People should man up or shut up imo.

Leave it open and start another thread for mods/team only

Need a daily dose of popcorn.gif. MttC is so dead these days otherwise.

Props to the team though working on this. Personally, I don't think you should be concerned with presenting all info. in the most professional manner. Just post what you can. Most people appreciate the time you put into it.

@chuck

Ive made myself available to help through this. The problem is you have a set of people you are working with that mtt full time, so their time is minimal. You have a set of people who arent active in this forum anymore, so they wont do anything. And then you have me, who has been pretty shut out of this discussion, although Im one mod who doesnt have any relationship with 99% of mtters, I only mod this forum because it is a similar feel/ruleset as the other forum I mod. If anyone would like me to step up and drop the drama bombs, I will. I have ideas of how to do this 99% anon, only I will know who posted the info. This way no mods have to make friends mad, and I can take all the hate.

I feel from a legal standpoint, I will not be able to held liable in any suits as I am just relaying information, and will keep it documented in the unlikely event this situation arises. Or you guys can keep tra-la-la-ing in secret and getting nothing done.

keep it open please!

Also we all know that Mement and Galen are innocent. Further proof is unnecessary.

.

chuck coming off like the know it all look at me drama queen like he usually does. i still applaud you taking all this **** on (you still wanted it) etc etc but you are handling it so poorly from an outsiders perspective

you had it coming

Hey Chuck, I'm bored as **** and chilling in the states not VPNing, get me on the squad

I've been trying to distance myself from this for a long time, I don't have "people", I was only trying to offer assistance to other mttc mods on what I thought was a good way to continue and I thought everyone had the same idea about it. Then about a week ago they told me that there's some legal gibberish issue with 2+2 owners or something and they need to look into it before reopening and that the plan was to do separate threads, clear the whole past mess that I was now forced to do under my own account, etc. Then I heard nothing back for a week, assuming they were busy with working on this and/or 2+2 owners were still being nits. I don't know what happened but no one told me and I woke up to this thread being reopened and everything I thought we agreed on just ditched. I appreciate your willingness to get into this and you sound like you could be a huge help in the future, but really just discuss that with other mtt mods and come up with a some kind of gameplan. At this point there is nothing I need to do anymore and I wouldn't get involved if you paid me.


edit: I'm still going to IoM so I'll report when I hear Stars' thoughts about the problem(s) here in a broader sense

Wow this is crazy. I can honestly say I have never once in my life been playing a hand and asked for advice on it. Didn't realise that this goes on to such a big extent.

@chuck

I really only responded to you that way so I wasnt lumped in with the mods that are "handling" this. If I take any of this on, I wont expect any help publicly from anyone.

I would like to make one post to this thread to explain my standpoint.

As I stated before, in the past I have added numerous different smallstakes players on skype to offer coaching, mid/higher stakes players to talk hands and strat with and to learn from them. They have mainly been discoverable by their username on stars coorrelating with their skype name.
My intentions were never to offer in game hand by hand "ghosting"

Pokerstars now have any skype logs which apparently suggest I did ghost anyone and if any of these logs show me instructing another player how to play hand by hand surely they will ban me, which is fair enough.

I can assure the 2p2 mttc that no equity has ever been taken from PS mtts by me giving in game instruction.

On another note here is my graph for Pokerstars mtt for the last 18months
[IMG]http://s21.************/bk5fma2yv/chart.jpg[/IMG]

Going forward If I plan to offer any coaching it will purely be through 2p2 forums.

[IMG][/IMG]

haha, i was clearly taking the pi$$ asking for 30%

if only this fish had sent me 30% then u might have a case.

How does this show I received payment for ghosting?

Well, they said there is more than one, so we will see if you make the same "joke" every time.