Also, it seems like the first case of MTT anonymous nomination is brewing as the GoldenBears stuff is up there, it doesn't really matter if it should've been modded out or not, it's there now for everyone to see and it's too late. And now we also know that the user in question has seen it and I assume will be commenting on it in the near future.

Now I literally don't know first thing about mr GoldenBears and I don't have any kind of opinion on him in one way or another, so I'm just a spectator to this show. Regardless, this is how I suspect it will go:

1) Anonymous account claims GoldenBears has MA'd and has no evidence
2) GoldenBears comes to the thread saying he hasn't done it and requests evidence.

And because GoldenBears, and probably almost everyone else who will be nominated in the future is not an idiot, it's extremely unlikely that he has left evidence behind anyone could ever catch him from (if he had done this, which I'm not in anyway implementing). What kind of evidence could there even be? Someone photographing him playing as someone else?

And because it's impossible for anyone to request evidence from GoldenBears that he has *not* multiaccounted, the case is dismissed. I assume it will go like this in every single case and we are none the wiser.

I don't have a suggestion about how to make this process better, I just thought I'd point this out. I hope someone has good ideas because I'm running low on them. I have several people I'm basically sure have stolen hundreds of thousands from us, people who are celebrated and looked upon in the whole MTT world, and there is literally no way of either stopping them or exposing them.

We won't be able to prove anything, but Stars will be able to track transaction history and follow trail of money.

i love euros. Especially Mickey " mement mori" petersen. And the big firaldo. my apologies to europe. Once i get rolling sh.it just gets posted.

Apologies for making a US court system analogy (instead of a weed or carrot analogy...)

But basically, we can't act as judge and damn certain people/accounts without having all the evidence available to us (exception for someone who has video footage of someone MA'ing or something as compelling). We can sort of act as grand jury, though, and look at whatever evidence and accusations are put forth, and then decide if there's probable cause to report it to Stars, or if the accuser just has a grudge vs the accused.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...fessions-1007/

we basically need to do this except tailored to this thread

What you don't seem to understand is that the capabilities of us to catch these people are WAY better than whoever Stars employs. The high stakes people doing dirtyness aren't idiots. They are smarter than 99% of people and they are 500x better at poker than anyone who has ever received a paycheck from Stars. They aren't cheating by regging a 6 player DoN and folding KK pre when the other cheater has AA. They are doing it in ways Stars is never able to detect. Same goes for VPNers. There have been numerous reports sent over the last 18 months and to my knowledge they haven't caught a single person who wasn't handed to them on a silver plate. Same goes for new accounts through remote control. I know exactly who x was playing as when he won ~220k during wcoop when everyone else thought he'd have been y. Proof? It's ~impossible to prove, the only way to prove it would be to have someone who knows the player's tendencies EXTREMELY well to go over tons of hhs, and even then it would not be solid proof in the sense that Stars could do anything about it. I know you're a lawyer and all and probably have blind faith in Stars working as a some kind of super agent and ultimate judge who's catching criminals left and right but facing these problems they are entirely powerless. The only power to have a hope of catching these people is in the MTT community, and since it seems nearly impossible to get these people punished by Stars, the only way to hurt them at least a little bit and to discourage people from doing in the future is (imo) to publically name and shame them.

I'm not talking about random accounts who you can probably report because they shot up from $11 abi to $300 abi and won the 320 6m seven times during September, you can prolly report those and Stars might even be able to do something. I'm talking about the bigger stuff here that Stars can't do anything about because they don't have the resources and they never will unless they hire a team of busto ex-professional poker players on commision fees to go over gazillion hhs. If they can find Stealthmunk from the Foxwoods parking lot and stake him for a few live birds he'd probably do it and catch 90% of these guys. But with the Stars security team who's only capable of catching blatant collusion and similar stuff executed by idiots who are trying to make easy money and can't beat $5 sngs it's just false hope. It's hilarious to me how everyone has this blind faith on Stars when they have proven to be extremely incapable of catching anyone for years. And I don't really even blame them - these scams are so professional and tough to catch that it'd be very hard to find an employee who's capable of doing that who'd want to be employed by Stars and not as a professional poker player.

CB -
I think you make good points, but I think you're misunderstanding my points. I think mttc will be a very valuable resource to Stars to give them a place to start. I think the fact that Stars doesn't have 100 HH reviewers devoted to catching MAs makes it more important that mttc only passes on names of people who are very likely to have cheated - and doesn't just pass on every name to Stars in a massive witchhunt. Give them 20 names and they can research their account details and transfer histories along with HHs and shady anomalies and actually confirm cheating.

Overwhelm them with 300 names that people sort of have a hunch could be shady, and likely nothing good will come of it.

So yea - I'm agreeing with you that Stars can't catch every single scammer, and I agree that shaming cheaters is another route we could take (although that doesn't sit well with me bc almost definitely innocent people will also be accused)

Chuck,

The two guys that are in charge of Game Integrity/Security and US player relocation are both well respected members of the community and pretty intelligent imo. So maybe be a bit more respectful.

Youre def right that 2p2 could do a better job of investigating but that scenario would involve releasing private data to the public and having self interested parties being judge and jury. Obv you see the problem in this.

Theres a pretty easy fix to beefing up Stars' ability to catch ppl ; raise rake so they can lure more good players to work for them. You down w that? Or be quicker jumping the gun locking and investigating accounts. That's all well and good until you miss a weekend from an overzealous lock or a fish is turned off from poker because of a lock. You could also require more identity verification before letting a new account play. To me that seems like an absolutely horrible idea.

About the only fix that doesnt hurt the games in another way is if people are willing to be ostracized by collecting and releasing information to 2p2 and stars. It's really hard to put this on stars when theres a very strong 'Stop Snitchin' code in the community.

What has his panties in a bunch is that you are still a Lockpoker pro despite overwhelming evidence of its insolvency. You should be consider a pariah to this community. You are no better than anyone who will be outed in this thread, if not worse. Nobody cares what you have to say about this topic and nobody wants you here. You are up in arms about a wrong in the poker world while you represent a site and thus one would presume paid by a site that is scamming the poker community. You are absolute scum. Shut the **** up.

Prim is just doing what everyone else in MTTc does: Look out for themself.

Thats why people VPN. Thats why people ghost. Thats why people won't out people they know who are VPNing or Ghosting.

i dont wear underwear of any sorts for what its worth. but well put tuthill.

AND HE DOESNT PLAY MTTS, no one here gives a **** about ghosting or VPNing in hu sngs.

boxers, who needs em?

i was ghosted by michael jackson, in the jacuzi str8 relaxin.

Yeh you would think primo would be more sympathetic to vpn'ers- since he clearly has no moral qualms about being paid to support a company that steals from the community. The irony of him discussing whats ethical or not in online poker is just lol, cant actually expect to be taken seriously right?

+1000

Hey Kramerica wtf with calling euros and aussies idiots.

Not sure where you came up with that bull****

<3

Hi Primordial

because anyone that fails to see that someone VPN/TVing on their own account is not trying to deceive anyone and isn't really doing anything wrong is fuct in the head... its ONLINE poker ... this is supposed to be the beauty of it... you can play it from anywhere... who gives a fucc where you're playing from as long as it is you playing on your own acct

The point has been made several times here but Stars need to follow the money from accounts that are suspect.

There should be a controlled thread where information on accounts that people believe to be suspect can be posted, alongside the evidence that makes you believe they are suspect.

I don't understand everyone saying follow the money. Surely if you are using a VPN, you get access to someone else's Pokerstars account, then transfer money onto a pokersite from their bank account then transfer your winnings back to their bank account. There's nothing suspicious about that.

I can't imagine people using these accounts are transferring money back and forth using the pokerstars client. That would be pretty stupid of them.

Oh, so it wasn't primarily (relocated) US regs who came up with a bunch of sob stories and complained about how VPN'ing regs get to play from the comfort of their home and end up costing the regs who moved money?

But yeah, ****ing euros/aussies man

Also it was made pretty clear that using a VPN provided by the people/person mentioned earlier in this thread comes hand in hand with being assigned a new account to play on, meaning that even the honest regs will be playing on a new unknown account which makes your entire argument invalid.

It sure sucks what happened to the US but that doesn't allow you to use one (or even multiple) new account(s) just so you don't have to move countries as it'll always be a clear advantage over other regs

That`s not necessarily true as you could setup your own Account without a problem as long as you would provide pokerstars with the required documents(New Adress in Canada/Mexico or w/e).

Although I think VPNing and MAing go hand in hand as it`s really easy to setup a Multiaccount. Don`t even think they would play HS-MTTtourneys like the 109r but tourneys like Big 55/109 Hots and SM/WU etc. where it would be hard to find them and where they got the biggest $/Game.

What really annoys me is the bashing of players who have a different opinion. Especially when they moved and did it the right way. And just because someone doesn`t play MTTs regulary doesn`t mean he can`t write in this thread. This thread just happens to be in MTTc.


Interestingly enough Galen hasn`t reacted to the accusations.


edit:

Do you get a stamp or something when you leave/enter Canada/Mexico? I guess that could be a way to find out when people are in the country then.