Hey everyone, I need some help with this spot.....34 yr old recreational player from moneymaker boom. Havent been able to play as much over the past 5 years, so my game is super rusty. Im basically stuck in a 2011 TAG strategy. I'm aware of GTO/charts and all that stuff, I just havent taken the time to study,deep dive yet. Anyways.

Level 2 - 200/300 (300bba)

Everyone is basically around 30k effective starting stacks except for CL of table around 50k but he doesnt get involved in the hand.

Im in UTG+1 and I look down at TsTc

I open to 800 (my first open of the tourney, I've played only 2 hands in the tourney so far)

MP1, HJ and BB call (I am only worried about MP1 based off reads so far, BB and HJ are rec noobs like me)

FLOP 2h3h4d

BB checks, I lead for 2400,

MP calls,

HJ reraises to 7000

BB folds

I go into tank.........

I am trying not to hollywood but I start overthinking the spot and i've been thinking for about a minute here. I just start overthinking HJ s range

I end up jamming for about 24kish.




I need help with my leaks, is this too punty? Too risky this early on in the tournament? Flatting is way worse than jamming here correct? Best options are fold/jam/then call?

Obviously not the best spot to pick in hindsight so is it okay to just fold here and take the hit early on in the tourney?

I think a big leak in my decision to jam was the fact that it was the sunday of my work week. I wanted to make taking the shot worth it versus being too nitty and folding for 4 hours only to jam A7 with 13 bbs and go home with the same result. I figured if I won this pot, I'd have a good shot at making day 2 based off my TAG strategy.....I just didn't want to fold for 7 hrs, drive an hr back home only to go back into work 6 hrs later.....is this an okay thing to factor in or is that -ev?

Anyways just some basic brainstorming around these kinds of spots/hands early in an MTT

If villain is a rec noob as you suggest, then his raise is very strong in that spot. It's hard to think of hands he would play this way that you're beating. You could call and see what he does on the turn, in case he's using the old "raise a flush draw to get a free card" move, but I'm just not sure I see a live rec player making that move in this spot.

In terms of the mental game stuff, you really shouldn't be playing a tourney if you're not able to give it your full attention.

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you shouldn't lead the flop in the first place.

It is 3 way, BB have all the 23456 number cards and you don't.


TT on that flop is a medium hand with the deep stack to pot ratio. 2900 vs your 24k or 30kish stack.
The goal is to win a cheap showdown, not to get all the chip in.

Consider yourself lucky he didn't show 56 or A5

Getting 100 bb in on this flop- you are always against a ton of equity at best. At worst you are drawing super thin to odd straights and sets. Idk your hand is face up when you cbet and get a call and then a raise. A raise here by villians is never weak and it almost seems you have no FE. Villians will fold 88 or 99 so I agree check flop is good.

I don't agree with those advocating checking the flop. It's multiway and a very wet flop, but you likely have the best hand at this point. You want to get value from all the weaker pairs and draws, and deny equity to random overcard combos. So I like a fairly large CB here. But that also helps you narrow down villain's range when he makes an aggressive move. If you check flop you're basically handing over the pot because your equity will drop dramatically on the turn if it gets there multiway.

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"Likely to have the best hand" is useless when stacks are deep. What's more important when betting this flop is "how likely your hand are drawing to the nuts" Of which your tens are not drawing to anything and A5 and 56 have you destroyed already. The example OP have given with JQhh demonstrated this already. It have you beat already on the flop with like 53% equity, even though your hand is a pair and his hand is overcards.

Even 6d7d with a gutshot and backdoor flush draw is better betting hand than tens.

There's nothing wrong with bet/folding this flop. Checking this flop is literally giving up on the hand.

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Im not anti betting flop but when you bet a big % of the pot and it goes call raise- you are in trouble and need to find a fold. So many sets and straights were hero is drawing so thin. Folks aren’t raising 88 or 99 here or at such a small %- you find a lot of trouble.

Agreed

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Was this the MSPT Kickoff event at Black Hawk? I played that.

You got it in 45%. The cbet and the large sizing are bad. This is a dripping wet board. You should be aware of the 3 wheel card flop. Any pp is an overpair, set, or straight draw. Any ace is a straight draw. Flush draws are possible, and combo draws likely. Low cards can hit this hard.

Fold to the raise as played. Usually, when you are raised you will be up against a draw like this, but you still should fold.

Against 3 players including the BB where we are out of position against 2 of them on a flop like this (where this hits everybody else's range hard and not your range at all) it is an automatic check on the flop. Yes we have an overpair, but everybody is going to know we do when we bet and you are going to be taken down a bad path.

Among other things if you check you get to fold to a bet and raise without losing any more chips.

Even if you get a call or two when you bet, there aren't many good turns for this hand except (maybe 7 through T non hearts)

I would much prefer trying to get to showdown very cheaply and if an overcard hits the turn probably folding to a bet.

The jam actually was +EV (from a results oriented standpoint) but not against the ranges you are facing.

This flop also hits the preflop raiser's range hard. Aces are straight draws and good pps are decent overpairs. You can also have hearts.

Its not that overpairs aren't valuable and certainly TT+ are going to be the best overpairs to this board.

Its just that all sets are in everybody else's range a lot more than UTG. Similarly all flopped two pairs and straights are not at all in the UTG range (except maybe A5s) and are all over the BB range and somewhat in the LP ranges (mostly suited). Also flush draws and better straight draws (5s & 6x) are much more in the caller's ranges.

This flop does not hit the preflop raiser's range hard in my opinion. The straight draw is bottom end and won't make chips if nobody has 6x and a 5 comes. But it will lose a lot of chips if one of the callers has 6x especially if it is a LP caller. The overpairs are truly good but so are the misses by AJ+/KQ and any SC's.

Some of my most painful memories in tournaments are flops like this when I have 99-JJ. Especially when I have bet the flop (which I did in the distant past)

Semantics: On the flop, it's not a lead. You are cbetting.

As previously stated, BB has range advantage on this board and LP flatter has heaps of equity with their range. Thus, we should avoid large betting here. In theoryland, we bet big when we have very strong made hands, lots of equity with our unmade ones and/or when villains ranges are capped and/or board favors us. Since none of these are true of us, we bet small or check.

Checking avoids bloating the pot vs two better performing ranges on this board. However, betting small derives EV from 66-99, 56, front and back fds and protects against broadways that will check back and realize their equity. I would go 25-33%, max 40% (as an exploit either because we are not confident in our turn game or because we know Villains will pay more than they should with their hands). I would do the same with my pairs up to QQ and mix my KK and AA combos as checks based around their suits relative to the board.

As for learning the new era of the game, I would start looking at preflop ranges for varying stack sizes/positions. At minimum, you want to know your opens from EP, MP, LP off 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 40, 50. Once you've gained some confidence there, look at flop c-betting. Again, build your study around the stack sizes and positions. Stack size and position will significantly impact how you play your ranges. As previously stated, when stacks go in on this board for 100bb, TT isn't performing well since they will be up against made sets, straights, two pair, some better overpairs and flush draws with at least 1 over. Even AA is going to be up against hands with heaps of equity or dead. However, if you were 20-30bb effective, getting TT in on this board with no flush draw would be the preferred action.

AK/AQ/AJ are pretty good on this flop with a straight draw and premium overcards. AhKh would be a monster.

Maybe I'm missing something here but this seems completely backwards. Betting small when you don't have the range advantage on a very wet board in a multiway pot is just flushing chips down the toilet. I think this is very clearly a check and basically give up, or bet large.

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Yeah, cbetting small seems really bad here. In general, it is rarely good on a dripping wet board.

You probably are ahead, but you have to check. It is fairly unlikely anyone has a better made hand. Gii for 100x BB is bad. Just check and reevaluate.

Thank you everyone for the great feedback. This is exactly what I was hoping to get out of the discussion. It was the little things reading on here I need to remember and sharpen back up because honestly, It had been so long since I played a major live tourney that I kind of panicked and got self concious about hollywooding a spot. I guess that should be music to y'alls ears lol.

There's more rust to work off than I had thought. I am glad to see this spot got some multiple viewpoints. I just wanna go back to the 4/180man challenges on stars like the good ole days.

I will say, as a 34 y/o moneymaker era guy, I was super shocked to see so many younger players on a tuesday day 1a kickoff event.