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Was This A Bad Shove Was This A Bad Shove

01-28-2024 , 10:42 PM
No Limit Hold'em Tournament T4,000/T8,000
Buy-in: Tournament #31106422 - Holdem (No Limit)
Winning Poker Network
8 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com: Poker HUD for Mac and Windows

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T211,400)
UTG+1 - UTG+1 (T443,550)
MP - MP (T512,104)
MP2 - MP2 (T130,302)
CO - CO (T284,108)
BTN - BTN (T53,600)
SB - SB (T126,050)
BB - Hero (T336,000)

Preflop: (T21,600, 8 players) Hero is BB with Kc Ac
1 fold, UTG+1 calls T8,000, MP raises to T22,800, 3 folds, SB calls T18,800, Hero raises to T334,800 (all-in), UTG+1 calls T326,800, 1 fold, SB calls T102,050 (all-in)

Flop: 2s Th 7c (T826,850, 3 players, 2 all-in - SB: T0, Hero: T0, UTG+1: T107,550)

Turn: 8h (T826,850, 3 players, 2 all-in - SB: T0, Hero: T0, UTG+1: T107,550)

River: 9d (T826,850, 3 players, 2 all-in - SB: T0, Hero: T0, UTG+1: T107,550)

Total Pot: T826,850
SB shows Ad 3d (a high card, Ace high [Ad Th 9d 8h 7c])
Hero shows Kc Ac (a high card, Ace high [Ac Kc Th 9d 8h])
UTG+1 shows 7h 7d (three of a kind, Set of Sevens [7h 7d 7c Th 9d])

UTG+1 wins T406,950 from main pot
UTG+1 wins T419,900 from side pot 1
Was This A Bad Shove Quote
01-28-2024 , 11:34 PM
I think 3 betting to 90k is fine. Don't hate the jam but the problem is that it makes it very obvious you have AK. AA-TT will 3 bet to get value, and AQ/AJ/KQ will never jam this many BBs. When I see people doing this at my tables I think to myself "it's AK" and I'm almost always correct.

Even so, the call by MP is pretty bad, and the SB's call is obviously straight up atrocious. Just keep playing whatever games these are and you'll do fine if the pools are like this
Was This A Bad Shove Quote
01-29-2024 , 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeNitFL
I think 3 betting to 90k is fine. Don't hate the jam but the problem is that it makes it very obvious you have AK. AA-TT will 3 bet to get value, and AQ/AJ/KQ will never jam this many BBs. When I see people doing this at my tables I think to myself "it's AK" and I'm almost always correct.

Even so, the call by MP is pretty bad, and the SB's call is obviously straight up atrocious. Just keep playing whatever games these are and you'll do fine if the pools are like this
If you think that, Hero can balance with TT-99 and will screw you when you try calling off with lesser pairs. If that is the only hand in your range, that is bad, but if you can balance it with some pairs, and maybe the (very) occasional A5s, it is fine.
Was This A Bad Shove Quote
01-29-2024 , 02:04 AM
On principle I agree but bad online players often play AK face up since their thinking isn't going this deep.
Was This A Bad Shove Quote
01-29-2024 , 06:46 AM
I think it's fine, although a standard 3-bet would be fine too with a hand this strong. But being OOP and with the number of players in the hand who might call, there's nothing wrong with shoving at this stack size.

Both call-offs are terrible.
Was This A Bad Shove Quote
01-29-2024 , 02:09 PM
I have no problem with this if you are doing it with your complete 3-bet raising range.

In these spots I often call with AKs in the BB when there is a going to be a multi-way pot especially when a chip leader who limps EP hasn't limped before. We then get to see if UTG+1 raises/jams which would be a fold for me.

UTG+1 call is awful with 77 given there were two raises (but then the original limp was awful too) and SB should have jammed rather than call the 2.75x raise with 15 blinds.
Was This A Bad Shove Quote
01-29-2024 , 02:33 PM
I agree that this shove is not bad.

Then again, I recently did the same thing with TT on the BB when UTG +1 min raised, BU flatted and SB flatted. I was table chip leader and eff stack (UTG +1) was 40 bbs. Unfortunately, UTG +1 called with AQo (which was definitely a hand I was targerting to fold thinking I looked like a lot of AK in my range) and lost the flip. In retrospect, I thought there was no need to take the high variance play with my 60 bb stack -- maybe results oriented?

Still think the better move for me would be to r/f and for you with AK to r/c.
Was This A Bad Shove Quote
01-29-2024 , 04:04 PM
Definitely results oriented. TT is a good hand, it would be a disaster to 3-bet/fold it to AQ / AK, you add almost 20% to your stack if everyone folds, and 40BB isn't so deep you should be passing up an edge like this (you're still 57/43 in this scenario; how far can we get from 50/50 before it's not really considered a "flip" anymore?).
Was This A Bad Shove Quote

      
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