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Awkward spot with JJ Awkward spot with JJ

09-26-2017 , 06:36 PM
Last 2 tables, Villain 43/10 over 35 hands - my stats on table were 15/9 off 83 hands

    Poker Stars, $4.10 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    MP1: 15,600 (26 bb)
    Hero (MP2): 11,923 (19.9 bb)
    MP3: 11,748 (19.6 bb)
    CO: 18,664 (31.1 bb)
    BTN: 5,220 (8.7 bb)
    SB: 12,376 (20.6 bb)
    BB: 21,342 (35.6 bb)
    UTG+2: 14,392 (24 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J J
    2 folds, Hero raises to 1,200, MP3 folds, CO calls 1,200, 2 folds, BB calls 600

    Flop: (4,300) K 4 4 (3 players)
    BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets 2,150, BB folds, Hero calls 2,150

    Turn: (8,600) Q (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO checks

    River: (8,600) Q (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets 4,300, Hero folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: 8,600 pot
    Final Board: K 4 4 Q Q
    Hero mucked J J and lost (-3,400 net)
    CO mucked and won 8,600 (5,200 net)


    Is the preflop sizing ok? It gives me an SPR of about 3 if just the BB calls, as played I had 2.5 but I think with JJ I wanna either GII pre or play flop dependent

    Is the flop a b/f? As played, is the river a call? Flush draw missed which leads me to think he can be bluffing a lot here
    Awkward spot with JJ Quote
    09-26-2017 , 08:35 PM
    I have to think he would bet the turn again with a King, and your JJ blocks several of his most likely Qxs combos. Plus you've played the hand very passively which will entice him to push you off. I think you have to call that river.

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    Awkward spot with JJ Quote
    09-27-2017 , 05:33 AM
    I think you made a huge error by checking that flop when it was checked to you, and because of this you opened up the CO to basically taking control where you probably could have seen the turn for cheap, and possibly the river for free.

    If you check the flop he is going to bet here most of the time if hes a good player and then you are put in a bad spot having to call out of position. You showed EP strength and opened, keep it going on the flop most times if its checked to you.
    Awkward spot with JJ Quote
    09-27-2017 , 08:40 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mandanced
    I think you made a huge error by checking that flop when it was checked to you, and because of this you opened up the CO to basically taking control where you probably could have seen the turn for cheap, and possibly the river for free.

    If you check the flop he is going to bet here most of the time if hes a good player and then you are put in a bad spot having to call out of position. You showed EP strength and opened, keep it going on the flop most times if its checked to you.
    He said that villain is 43/10, so he is not good.

    Check on the flop is ok because you have 2 opponents. River probably c/c, especially if his river aggression is big. I think if he had a king he would bet on the turn. Though loose-passive players very often just checking in position with a top pair and then they bet on the turn. I see this very often. He could make a check on the turn because he had maybe Kx but not KQ, so he scared that you are playing with AK or KQ that's why he checked. After your check on the river he decided that you probably don't have a king or a queen and he bets.
    Need more info on this opponent. Once again, if you know he can bet with flush draw then yes, it's a call on the river, but if you opponent so passive and will never bet with some draw then it's a fold.
    Awkward spot with JJ Quote
    09-27-2017 , 08:44 AM
    I would call river too. It´s unlikely that he holds a 4 or a Q. The number of 4x and Qx combos is reduced, because two of each are lying on the board. With AK he would have made a 3-bet, the same with AA, KK. QQ is unlikely but also with QQ Villain must have fired a 3-bet. The board blocks combos like KQs/o, and something like QJ or KJ is blocked by the board and by your hand as well.

    You both checked flop so CO could just take advantage of his position, nobody showed strength. The turn is a Q, with a king Villain should bet for value. CO checks back. When the second Q appears on the river CO might assume that he can push you out of the pot with something like A-high or a busted draw in diamonds.

    So: I would call river.
    Awkward spot with JJ Quote
    09-27-2017 , 09:50 AM
    Thanks all.

    I think in isolation a call on the river does make sense. The further consideration that I maybe placed too much reliance on was the tournament situation: if I fold I have 14bb (enough to reshove with fold equity); if I call and lose I'm on 7bb (and just looking to for a spot to GII); and if I call and win I'm on 35bb and in a good position going into the final table. I think the downside of often ending up with 7bb and having significantly damaged my chances to make a deeper run was what led me to just 'settle' for a 14bb stack and look for a better spot.

    As most points are focusing on the river, can I also conclude that check/call on flop as played is ok vs a bet/fold on flop?
    Awkward spot with JJ Quote
    09-27-2017 , 10:17 AM
    Check/call is ok on the flop.
    Awkward spot with JJ Quote
    09-28-2017 , 03:49 AM
    Ah, missed the 43/10. Yeah against that type of player I guess checking is fine but honestly for me personally, im still betting usually.
    Awkward spot with JJ Quote

          
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