V 30/16 over 50 with 44% postflop agg

Preflop sizing? Are you betting flop? Raising turn? Flatting river?

River sizing?

Overall grade?

Pre: The 3bet needs to be a lot bigger imo, at least 400.

Flop: I'm betting ~600 here close to 100% of the time. Lots of Kx, smaller pairs and draws we can get value from and lots of horrible turn cards that can beat us/kill our action.

Turn: yeah fine.

River: Why are you raising now? What's calling that we have beat? Maybe AK/KQ bluffcatches, but that's about it.

There are a few hands. AhTx type hands, KQ, KJh...etc

He surely can't put me on AK here so I think I'll get a lot of calls by villain having any piece of this and thinking I'm bluffing missed hearts.

Don't 3b pre, don't raise river. Fold river.

I think you made mistakes on all streets except the turn

grade = 3/10

360 pre, bet/bet/bet

I rate this post 3/10.

Don't 3b, don't b/b/b super deep with one pair on a monotone board. What're you hoping to get value from?

'Fold river' is frankly ridiculous. 3B pre is fine b/c players at small stakes are going to be calling with a lot of dominated hands which we can get value from.

Totally agree that raising this river is dreadful because we over-rep our hand and simply aren't getting value from much, if anything

+1

Is villain really betting this river w/AhTx? Most of the time he will be ch/c imo since he has picked up decent showdown value and can bluffcatch your missed heart draws if you decide not to bet the flop with these. Raising the river here is a mistake 100% of the time imo

3 way to the flop I think I like a b/c/b line a little better but this is ok. I think you can get called somewhat light otr, it's a weird spot where you're over-repping your hand but also looking bluffy enough to get called light so I actually don't mind the raise, esp since his hand looks exactly like a pair < K with a heart or mb a worse K with a heart.

I generally would flat this deep but I like the three bet cuz I don't want everyone and their brother coming along with AKo

No folding river isn't ridiculous lol. You beat only a bluff. 3b pre just sucks cause we never get stacks in post. The deeper you are the worse ak is.

In this particular spot, we can't fold the river because villain has many bluffs in his range that we induced after checking the flop. Folding the river here is much too nitty. There aren't that many value combo's villain can have assuming we're not giving him credit for having flopped a flush.

'3B pre just sucks because we never get stacks in post' This is illogical because by 3B'ing pre we make it easier for ourselves to play for stack postflop. Not 3B'ing pre means we need to almost potsize 3 streets in order to play for stacks.

I would probably 3bet pre, bet flop and check call the rest, folding if a heart comes

it's really not. you're very likely to have the best hand and your raise/range is protected so you get jammed on <1%. it's thin but it's not a mistake at all.

No that's not accurate. It doesn't matter if he only has a few combos if he doesn't bet much worse. He can have sets too. He can also have tons of sc hands since you're so deep and yes he should call a 3b with it since he has massive implied odds. We shouldn't get stacks in this deep with one pair ever so that's why 3b isn't great and being this deep devalues ak massively. You prob shouldn't even have a 3b range prob at this point this deep possibly. You can also disguise your hand too and you have position too! Use that advantage. Plus you'd likely have to fold to a 4b which sucks ass since we shouldn't get all in pre here with ak.

What worse calls? Why raise when you have to fold if raised? Your hand isn't that great and people massively overvalue tp in these spots.

Sounds like a case for raising.

Horrible logic

Yes it is ridiculous.

There are plenty of combos villain bet for value here that we are ahead of.

Throw in bluffs and I'm never ever folding here to that bet size.

The voice of reason.

yes, they do, and there are 9 worse tp hands than ours not to mention a bunch of pairs in between that can hero call here. if you never r/f or b/f rivers you're spewing value.

bet bet bet

why would you ever check tptk and give them free cards?

I checked the flop for 2 reasons.

I massively underrep my hand by doing so. No way he is putting me on AK here after checking that flop. I did that at the risk of someone making the best hand on me. So when the flush draw bricks out, in my mind my gamble has paid off, and I can now get some extra value OTR, however thin it might be.

The second reason is, in case a heart comes I get away super cheap. I mean, I'm not comfortable making a big enough bet OTF here to scare away flush draws; not with one pair on a monotone flop. So if they're gonna call anyway, am I really "protecting my hand", and is my hand good enough to protect? I understand that I am getting more value out of draws by betting but I chose to get that value on later streets.

So to me the trickier play is to check it, hope the draw bricks out, and suck a lil extra value out of an underrepped hand.

THANK YOU!

My answer to the "why raise when you would have to fold to a re-raise" is simply "cause I was pretty sure I had the best hand and that he would pay me off and I wanted s'more value out of it".

Reasoning?

You're giving both opponents the correct price to profitably call with almost ATC. We don't mind them calling light obviously, but you want to give them the incorrect odds. Also you're gonna get more value if you flop well post.

Considering we 3bet pre, we're supposed to have JJ+, AK here. Villain needs to be pretty bad/stationy to be calling here with 1 pair. Obviously it's more then fine to r/f some rivers for value, but we need to get called with worse more often than we get called and lose/get raised and fold. That's most likely not the case here.

If OP thinks he will get called by worse here, then by all means raise. But i'd say that is an exception more often than not.

Yes it kinda is ridiculous, not only IS it a good spot for villain to bluff/barrel with the Ah, he's also betting a bunch of value hands we beat. And the goal of 3betting pre is not to get it in post, it's to get value now and play a bigger pot. We are even deep enough to flat a 4bet in position.

OK, glad this hand struck up some conversation, I thought it was an interesting one.

Ready for results?

I'm guessing he shoved?

This post pretty much sums up my exact thought process otr. I was initially going to flat but thought I could get some thin value.

Some of the nits around this place that level themselves into ridiculous folds crack me up.

Who in their right mind is folding TPTK in a turbo, when the draw bricked, getting 4:1 pot odds otr? Seriously? I don't play in the same types of tournaments as you guys I guess cause no one ever folds that against me.

I mean hero and people on here. Even if he does you're too deep and your hand isn't strong.

No it isn't.

What combos and what bluffs? Yeah the guy who's been here 7 years has horrible logic but the new guy knows it all. Seems legit.