Hey all, have a hand I think I goofed on but wanna go over it here?

Ok hand- I have 120k in a $400-100k tournament with a great structure. I’ve been card dead and have shoved average stack late in day 1 in last level of day at 3k bb level. I wanna say we are 7 of 8 handed and I’m probably close to chip lead at table or maybe 2-3rd in chips at table. Don’t have exacts.

Ok so good player that is probably one of the best players in field opens to 6.5k utg on 62k stack (his stack is probably 62-65k to start hand). I’m to his direct left and have AJo. Think we could 3! Fold but his stack is too shallow for this so I decide to flat at a passive straightforward table. It folds around and bb folds. We see flop of A67 rainbow. He checks and I check back bc I don’t see value being had. Turn is an 8 which brings red flush draw potentially and I have black AJo. He leads turn for 12.5k. I call. River is a 7. He jams maybe 42k. My hand is super underrepped as a i check flop. What do you do here? I sigh call.

I’ll let you guess his hand and say it later but Is this hand played ok? I feel we are way too top of range to fold and can beat odd bluffs. The river was another red card with no flush draw on river. I felt some bluffs could be in his range. Thoughts on how hand played out? I think AJo is actually a fold pre from utg+1 and I’m pretty sure charts would say to fold. Thoughts?

I think you can still 3/fold here. 2.5x at villain's stack depth is probably right, 16k or so.

This spot sucks for a good reason. A good player could be bluffing here, but I don't see many natural bluffs, assuming his 99-KK is too good to turn into a bluff. I suppose any Broadway he opened would make sense, especially QJs IMO (you almost definitely don't have AK if you didn't three-bet, so blocking AQ/AJ is more important, and the paired board really reduces your number of sets here). But he also has AK, AQ, 88, probably A8s, probably T9s, probably 66, small chance of 87s. He should be more likely to have 66 than most of the offsuit Broadway combos, in any case. If he knows what he's doing and plays the proper ranges here, I don't think there are a lot of hands that make sense as bluffs. Whereas it makes a lot of sense given positions and his stack size to check his entire range on the flop.

I dunno, given the ranges I envision here after thinking it through, I think there are relatively few bluffs, so it's probably a fold. I don't know that I'd actually be able to make that fold in this spot, though, and I may not be giving him credit for bluffing enough. You may be too high in your range to fold, although I can't imagine he's ever value shoving a worse hand. It's definitely close and I don't feel good about either decision tbh. It comes down to which hands he turns into bluffs and how often he does that.

There are just easier spots on a passive table to accumulate and the poker gods have given you a seat to his direct left on an otherwise passive table.

Folding pre unless his PFR is truly OOL, in which case 3b/f >> flat.

Folding is also completely acceptable under the circumstances. Theoretically, you actually do just want to fold AJo here some % of the time; this does seem like a good situation for it, with you being on the good player's left and how passive the table is (now I'm just repeating oldsilver). Theoretically you should never be flatting AJo here; it's a pure 3-bet or fold, and at this effective stack depth it's more fold than 3-bet, I think.

When to 3-bet to either stay balanced or when the situation seems right is up to you. I do think you can 3b/F if he's opening a proper range and you don't think he's gonna jam KJs/A5s type hands. He still has to fold a lot of his range if he's opening in line with GTO ranges. ("Good" can be vague in describing how a player actually plays. ) I'd be cautious as hell postflop if he flats, though.

It's precisely because you can get into these weird situations that you either want to pick up the pot pre or dump the hand. (And that's even factoring that you're at a passive table-- it's worse if you have a table with players who are smart enough to squeeze without a premium some percentage of the time, with seven ranges still behind you.)

I am indifferent between folding and calling preflop. If you are 7 handed I would be calling, if you are 9 handed I lean towards a fold. I would usually also make my decision based a bit on table dynamics. How often the table is 3 betting, etc.

It's tough to say what to do in this exact spot because I think it depends on the player and their view of you and your perceived range. I would probably sigh call this. Because your hand is underrepped as you said, you checking the flop and playing it this way gives him a chance to bluff and he obliges. I would expect him to bet a hand like 87 or 76 on the flop. So you are worried about sets and AK/AQ (Unless this player is really opening so wide that they can have A7 or A8).

Other things to consider, is there a Day 1B tomorrow? Has the player been opening more often in the last level? (A lot of players have a "Go Big or Go Home mentality" with these smaller buyins). Ie. they don't want to come back with an average or below average stack. They would rather take a shot and bust than come back with an average stack and squeak in the money.

Agree we're mostly indifferent between folding or 3-betting this pre. In UTG vs. UTG+1 situations this shallow we just don't do a lot of calling here, and our offsuit Ax almost never wants to call. I think folding ATo/AJo in these spots will be way more profitable in the long run - especially in live tournaments where ranges (even against the best players) are going to be a pip tighter than we think.

As played, it's tough because we shouldn't get here often at all with this combo and stacks so shallow. I will say that flop check back is nice and turn call is standard. On the river, AJo is one of the better Ax we have, obviously blocking Jx bluffs isn't great but we'd expect good players to bet those hands on the flop sometimes. If villain is capable of taking this line with AT/A9 for value then to me it's just a shrug call.

I would fold AJo here unless as Old Silver said the guy is super wide UTG and then it would be a 3-bet raise.

As played I probably fold. Though yesterday at the Aria with J7s and a T98 flop after I raised the flop and bet the turn I did call a c/r shove for about 1/2 pot. It could possibly have been a bluff (flush draw on the turn so JXs) but I knew in my heart he had QJ.

I also don't like the turn bet sizing from a calling standpoint. Its about 75% pot and it means that the river will likely be a shove. Which means he can have AA/AK/AQ/A8s/A7s/A6s/88/77/66 and wants calls here because his plan is to get it all in.

For me the bigger question is why UTG didn't bet the flop with an A in it? Its a polarizing check. Either he has hands like 88-KK or AA/77/66/Ax (and with Ax he wants to get it all in so its likely AK/AQ/A7s/A6s). Personally I would bet 88-JJ and any random SC's.

So with UTG being one of the best player's in the tournament he has a hand like 88 or AA/77/66/AK/AQ/A7s. Maybe A8s (but I think he bets that hand on the flop). I don't see how he has 54s/T9s and checks the flop because he will get a lot of folds and virtually no raises.

Preflop actually matter how many players are at the table. At 8 handed, AJo is mostly a fold with some 3bet/folds. At 7 handed, AJo becomes either call or 3bet/fold.


Flop is actually a pure check from villain's perspective. Thats actually something that you see a lot when oop on dry Ahi boards as the pfr. The IP caller has a tighter more condensed range and actually has the equity advantage on this type of board. The pfr has way more air on the flop while most of IP's range is Axs and pocket pairs.

On the river AJo is pretty indifferent to calling or folding. Probably leans slightly toward a call, but it wont be a big mistake either way.

Villain had AA for a well played hand. I def think he can have some bluffs on river but tough- I think he’s leading his flush draws on turn and some other stuff.

I felt as hand played, if he flats 3! Which I assume he does if I take a 3!/fold line- I lost my stack regardless. I think they play is fold pre bc AJo is a tad tough to play. I wanna say they table was 7 handed. 8 handed max.

I think based on villian- I prolly should fold pre. The table was very snug and not 3 betting light at all really. The prior level, I 3! Button with 68dd to a cut off open and he folded- I obviously show the light 3! Haha. No one else was really 3 betting too frequently and villian was like a good tag I would say. Wouldn’t say his opening was ool but I have only played against him maybe 2-3 times and super short sample size so can’t really say much (just know he was a good online player back in the day and has impressive Hendon mob results).

I think fold is best against a good player here or 3! Fold. I think he flats 3! With his exact hand and I get drilled post.

River- I was like I’m going to sigh call but I hate this call bc idk what I beat. Just a bluff really and idk what hands he turns into bluffs other than missed flush draws or really insane bluffs which I guess villian doesn’t have unless he has really good blockers to the nuttier hands which he most likely shouldn’t based on utg open on 20-25 bb stack.



I’ll throw another hand from vegas I want to hear about?

H2 vegas- we are close to money in a $800 bounty. Utg min opens on 15-18bbs stack. It goes 3 flats. We have 10-10 on button and make a fairly large iso. Let’s guess 10bbs? Utg rips. We sigh call and run into AA. Is just a spot we always take or do we go low variance pre and flat? I felt ep opener on shallow stack is super strong min opening. Do we ever flat and hope to flop a set and give up otherwise? Once utg ripped- I’m like I’m in trouble. Think his range is like jj+ AQ+. Maybe even taking out jj bc that might just be an open rip by some.

Hi mate, very different spot and worth discussing. Could you please drop this into a new thread and include all known/estimated info on stacks and player profiles?

2nd hand, if there are 3 flats ahead of you with TT, then that is a fist pump shove. So much dead money and if UTG folds, you will often get one of the other players who call you with a smaller pair praying you have AK.

Original hand w/ AJo if opener is true UTG (BTN-6) then think given pop tendencies AJo is at best a low frequency 3b or fold and at worst a pure fold.