Hi guys

This hand came up recently on a $5 DON bubble. The villain in BB is a reg (VPIP 14.6, folded BB to steal 85.6%) and is on two of my other tables. He's a big stack because someone shoved KQs into his aces. I narrowed down his range to a strong ace by the river but ultimately ended up calling a pretty huge river bet, which I'm not sure was correct. Opinions?

I was trying to minimize damage by check/calling but would you fold the river bet?


Merge - $5+$0.40|<> NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: 3,222.00
UTG: 1,580.00
Hero (MP): 2,510.00
CO: 1,815.00
BTN: 1,491.00
SB: 4,382.00

BB posts ante 10.00, UTG posts ante 10.00, Hero posts ante 10.00, CO posts ante 10.00, BTN posts ante 10.00, SB posts ante 10.00, SB posts SB 75.00, BB posts BB 150.00

Pre Flop: (285.00) Hero has A J

fold, Hero raises to 476.00, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 326.00

Flop: (1087.00, 2 players) A T 5
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (1087.00, 2 players) K
BB bets 350.00, Hero calls 350.00

River: (1787.00, 2 players) 4
BB bets 666.00, Hero calls 666.00

I think limping pre might be the way to go, definitely fold river

meh i'd probably bet/fold the flop and check/fold down.

don't ever limp pre...

umm yeah I dont think I'll limp pre with AJ

I would raise less pre, You're folding to a shove and your accomplishing the same thing a min raise or slightly more than minraise accomplishes imo

bet/fold then check/fold like emitnul said seems like the best line.

As played, river is fold imo

hmmm... bet/folding and check/folding seems like a good line.

this one ended up costing me the tourney

I'm pretty new to this forum, so I don't know how things go around here, but why does no one tell what the villain had.

Anyway I think you should bet the flop. And then check/fold maybe.

don't think you should be checking back flop, your giving him control of the pot essentially and you won't learn anything about your hand.
nice to see your a reg at these stakes too now

Yea as said previously you gotta c bet flop here for sure. Not only do you take down the pot before he hits his two pair (speculating) but if he shoves he is basically playing his hand face up. (set, two pair, better ace maybe) either way we fold to his shove.

This also speaks to the importance of betting less pre. As said before you fold to a shove pre, and this allows you to cbet without committing yourself or making you the short stack on the bubble. I make it 325 pre usually in a spot like this making the pot ~800 or so on the flop. After your cbet you have 1800 behind or so giving you plenty of room to steal and a bit of a cushion.

Lastly, people tend not to post results as it tends to bias the responses you get. It is much more difficult and thought provoking to put an opponent on a hand range not knowing what he actually had as opposing to saying oh he had a set here so it's a bad play etc.

Then why are you asking what to do in this hand? Obv. you played it wrong somewhere if it cost you the tournament.

The solution to playing a hand wrong isn't to play it worse though.

How is limping with aj in early position, on the bubble of a DoN, with at least 2 short shorties a poor play? He only has to outlast one more player, it's not like a regular sng where you play for first he's gonna paid the same if he's 1st in chips or 5th in chips.

Also this is a very dangerous way of thinking about a hand. Just because it didn't end the way you intended doesn't mean that you necessarily did the wrong thing.

There is a long slippery downhill slope to being results oriented if you think about a hand assuming you did something wrong every time you lose a tournament. Let me pose this question to you, If you shove aces and lose does it mean you shouldn't have shoved them? Just something to think about when you are reviewing hands.

pre flop is atrocious. raise to 330 ffs. bet flop ffs. ez $$$$.

It depends on the situation at that time. In this particular hand he created a confrontation with the only guy at the table who could knock him out of the tourny. He never should have made the pot that big against that opponent.

To answer you aces question, yes I can think of a time when I could have aa and shove and lose and think that was the wrong play. The question I pose to you is can you think of a situation where that might be the wrong play?

only time it would ever be bad to jam aa in a don would be if theyre were like 4 ppl w/ 1 chip on the bbl and youre jamming into the big stack.

pretty pointless question imo.

Also, its bad because any larger stack can own us and most ppls (shorter stacks) jamming ranges on bbls w/ 10bbs crush AJ. And just because bb has a big stack doesnt mean he's gonna start making light calls against us pre in the blinds. There is no reg around who would play AT in this stack setup so we have bad roi.

Its pretty damn close to a fold pre. But a small raise usually takes it down pre so thats fine.

I mean it's pretty simple really, you win more often and end up in easier post flop situations in general if you raise pre.

Dude the question was posed to me if there is any wrong time to shove aces pre. So obv. there is right? Just like there is many different ways to play a hand. Op asked for peoples opinion on how this particular hand was played and I gave mine, now I am taking flack for it. If he had played the hand the way I would normally play that particular hand in that particular situation he loses the minimum and is still in great shape to cash.

I realize it was poised to you. I dont mean to come off harsh. Just trying to point out some flaws i your thinking regarding limping this hand.

So where exactly are you pointing out my flawed thinking regarding the aj hand with this d-bag statement. Buddy was looking for opinions on how to play the hand. I on the other hand was not. If I wanted someones opinion I would ask for it. You don't have to like the way I would play that particular hand but keep it to yourself.

thats the whole point of this place, to discuss hands. even when you are giving your opinion on someone elses hand you are still subject to criticism. thats how you learn. and lol at calling that a dbag statement. cool your jets.

really not excited about this convo, but I think you misread my question or maybe I didn't come across clearly. I was not insinuating that there isn't a time to fold aces, but was rather suggesting that if u shove AA w/ 5bb and lose it doesn't mean you played the hand badly.

The whole point of this forum is to discuss how one would play a hand NOT to criticise how one would play a hand. I can listen to someone else describe their thought process all day long about how or why they played a hand a certain way and even if I completely thought the exact opposite I wouldn't be critical of them.

criticize = constructive criticism