Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
88 spot, mistake? 88 spot, mistake?

02-21-2018 , 11:20 AM
This is a $1 45p Sng's final table. These days I am trying to open my ranges and not being nitty. But I think this hand is maybe to much loosy. What do you think? Its a fold because of ICM?

The caller was loose



    Poker Stars, $0.91 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37931623

    BTN: 2,509 (4.2 bb)
    SB: 4,842 (8.1 bb)
    BB: 21,387 (35.6 bb)
    Hero (UTG): 9,999 (16.7 bb)
    MP: 19,228 (32 bb)
    CO: 9,535 (15.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8 8
    Hero raises to 1,200, MP folds, CO calls 1,200, BTN folds, SB raises to 4,792 and is all-in, BB folds, Hero raises to 9,949 and is all-in, CO calls 8,285 and is all-in

    Flop: (24,662) 4 3 A (3 players, 3 are all-in)
    Turn: (24,662) 5 (3 players, 3 are all-in)
    River: (24,662) 3 (3 players, 3 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 24,662 pot
    Final Board: 4 3 A 5 3
    SB showed K A and won 15,276 (10,434 net)
    Hero showed 8 8 and lost (-9,535 net)
    CO showed A J and won 9,386 (-149 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 11:28 AM
    maybe fold/push pre?
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 12:40 PM
    Definitely a fold UTG from me considering other stack sizes. I just don't see why we need to committ our stack here at this stage.
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 02:12 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Percyeus86
    Definitely a fold UTG from me considering other stack sizes. I just don't see why we need to committ our stack here at this stage.
    +1
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 02:37 PM
    I would go with it, it's a 1$ tournament that pays like $12 for first and you're 3rd in chips dealt a medium pair, I'm either going all in or playing it similar to how you did.
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 02:54 PM
    That's a fold. You're 3rd in chips on the FT with a few very short stacks. ICM is big here.

    Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 03:46 PM
    Why do I feel like people are saying a fold because of the results?
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 04:10 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UntimelyBluff
    Why do I feel like people are saying a fold because of the results?
    Really? You think that people need to see the results in order to determine the best play here?
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 05:12 PM
    If ICM is really a factor for such a small buy in tournament then sure fold because the 2 short stacks are likely to bust before you, but the pay jumps from 6th to 5th and 4th are what, a 1$? 2? If the pay jumps were huge and this was the Sunday Million then this could very well and should be a fold because we're talking about massive pay jumps. If we are supposed to treat this 1$ like it's any other tournament then there is no other option but to fold. I was merely saying that because it seemed like if the 88 held everyone would say NH.
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 05:17 PM
    Fair enough. I haven't looked at the results as it's irrelevent to me so unconcerned what happened.
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 05:28 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UntimelyBluff
    If ICM is really a factor for such a small buy in tournament then sure fold because the 2 short stacks are likely to bust before you, but the pay jumps from 6th to 5th and 4th are what, a 1$? 2? If the pay jumps were huge and this was the Sunday Million then this could very well and should be a fold because we're talking about massive pay jumps. If we are supposed to treat this 1$ like it's any other tournament then there is no other option but to fold. I was merely saying that because it seemed like if the 88 held everyone would say NH.
    If the payjumps are the same % increase as a $30 or $300 or $5000 tournament then ICM is the same factor regardless of what the buyin is. It's all relative so a $3 payjump for a player in this tournament is just as meaningful as a $150 payjump in a tournament with a buy-in that's 50x higher. Stop giving bad advice.
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 06:20 PM
    Thanks all. Trying to open my open/push, call pushes ranges I think I went too far and the reason for my actual downsing. Will think more this spots, thanks again
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 06:22 PM
    1 more question. If this hand was on the bubble, same stacks, same players (2 tables) it's a fold anyway?
    88 spot, mistake? Quote
    02-21-2018 , 07:51 PM
    If we consider ICM and players' likely calling ranges, this is extremely close. Nash has this as a slightly profitable $EV jam, but all players have to be calling very tight. With the player info you've given and also because it's micro stakes, I think the bigger stacks might call you slightly too wide here, making this a fold. (For ex: The big stack on your left is only supposed to call your shove with JJ+,AQs+,AKo. If I add just TT into his range, your ICM% of shoving 88 goes from +0.02% to -0.04%).

    Another option is to min-raise and only call jams from the 2 shorties. But, again, the big stacks on your left and in the bb can flat/3b you here pretty often, so I don't like this against these players.

    I'd sigh fold at this table and would either jam or min-raise vs. a tighter table.

    As played, I think you have to make an ICM fold to the jam.

    *If this were chip EV (no ICM involved), I'd usually min-raise 88 on this stack and call off against most players. Jamming is profitable, but I usually prefer min-raise on this stack size in most situations.

    Last edited by RPMcMurphy; 02-21-2018 at 08:01 PM.
    88 spot, mistake? Quote

          
    m