t150.00/t300.00 Blinds - 4 players

CO: t6041.00 20.14 BBs
BTN: t3320.00 11.07 BBs
SB: t1390.00 4.63 BBs
Hero (BB): t2749.00 9.16 BBs

Pre Flop: (t450) Hero is BB with 8 8
CO raises to t1050, 1 fold, SB raises to t1390, Hero...

CO (23/20) was abusing the bubble, and raised a lot. SB (21/17) was a rando.

I didnt know what to do in this spot? What is best here?

Folding is the best here imo, no need to risk your relatively healthy stack with a hand which might even not be good here. I would go with something like TT+.

I'd get it in here, You have a bit of FE against CO and if the worst comes to worst You'll have to lose in the SB>CO>HERO order. If either player is a total nit you could probably argue folding but as things stand I'd reship.

I get it in.

Decent overlay from the SB if you do decide to push. The most important thing in this hand is that your range is pretty far ahead of CO and SB is relatively short so we should not be too worried about him if we are behind. I would probably nit fold but calling here is probably correct.

+1 we cover SB + his range is big = snappity snap

Tend to agree w/ a fold myself. Neither could be too bad. Maybe I'm just a nit after all. Most likely pwner will fold, but if he calls ur in some bad shape.

Get it in! Shorty is allin, CO is raising wide. Either you get it heads up vs. shorty with tons of overlay or 3-way with a great chance of busting shorty. Both great situations.

Just curious:

If there is a chance CO folds when we shove but will always call when we call. Are you shoving or calling?

Was CO normally raising 3.5x? Or was he abusing the bubble by shoving?

Also, what would you put the SB on for calling range?

CO was always raising never shoving! I guess SB would call around 25%

I'd say shove just because your equity decreases so so much with a third player in the pool. Especially with these stack sizes post flop you'll get into a lot of awkward situations with 8s, calling with ~8bb behind is awkward imo

To post above--like everything in poker it's really player dependent on what you're putting the SB on. At $6 there's still a lot of people just trying to bleed into the money even at megahigh blinds and playing stupidly tight. If the player is smart 25% is good especially if CO is raising ATC. I'm also not sure how extendable your read is for CO. He's abusing the bubble but do you think he'd call off a shove from you just because he has a huge stack?

Guess I'm in the minority. I fold this an awful lot.

yea finks I does n all. high 5 us

i would shove, if playing for win.

CO was abusing the bubble so his range is very wild, SB could have Ax and any pair so ur 88 imo is very strong in here and u have 9bb´s. Also, if CO wins, we get in the money also.

Well if CO folds we get nearly 3 to 1 with a good PP and we can't even bust - so that's an easy decision.
And if CO calls, we get a 3 way pot where we cover 4th place and it has to go SB>CO>Hero to bust, so we get a chance to burst the bubble and take the chip lead into the money.

It's an odd spot, but call feels correct imo for the reasons above.

^I'm inclined to agree with that, but if you can get some decent ranges on villains we can just wiz it, right? Seems like a nice spot for it since the situation is fairly complicated (lots of outcomes Hero > UTG > SB, UTG > SB > Hero, SB > Hero > UTG, SB > UTG > Hero) and yet doesnt involve many extra-wiz elements...

BTW what's up with UTGs 3.5x raise? He might smallraise implying he might fold vs a BTN raise or just shove. But this just seems godaweful, any reads on that (besides being aweful

BTW

This is bad logic, we should be playing to maximize $EV. Sometimes that involves playing tight ("sneaking into the money") sometimes it involves playing aggressive an more loose ("playing for first").

(I know it has been said over and over, but still, helping people fix their logic should maybe help improve discussion)

Stats in OP is filtered. So when wizzing this hand its range is about 88+. AQ+ for shoving here.

I put CO on something like 18-20% and SB on 20-25%.

He did 3.5x all the time.

Ah ok, no reads then...

Looks good to me, maybe CO is even a bit wider, raising 20% filtered he I probably raise even more here (getting to own the bubble). I guess its a call then. 88 being borderline in Wiz also makes sense given that the regs here seem divided on the hand.

Seems like either option might be correct here. Hence, there is no right or wrong answer? Guess the only thing wrong u could do here is use flawed logic to come to the right conclusion, because neither one is wrong?

this seems a snap fold to me

im in this boat

call NJD ftw