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r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple)

12-26-2012 , 05:03 PM
Villain is mid-stakes reg, break-even at $60 abi.
19/13/7 with 73% folding to 3bet and 7% 4bet in 1.5k hands.
Pretty sure he saw me doing a lot of spew.

I was active 30/22/10.
Since there`s 15-20% range which he flats 3bet with I thought 3betting KQ ip is good.
He`s leading 4% of times, so no reads on his donking range.
WWYD?
It`s still long way to go fwiw.
(I`ll post other streets later)

PartyGaming - $50+$4|150/300 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP+1: 13,686.00
LP: 29,506.00
Hero (CO): 22,667.00
BTN: 10,952.00
SB: 5,960.00
BB: 11,180.00
UTG: 19,128.00
UTG+1: 8,657.00
MP: 12,350.00

MP+1 posts ante 30.00, LP posts ante 30.00, Hero posts ante 30.00, BTN posts ante 30.00, SB posts ante 30.00, BB posts ante 30.00, UTG posts ante 30.00, UTG+1 posts ante 30.00, MP posts ante 30.00, SB posts SB 150.00, BB posts BB 300.00

Pre Flop: (720.00) Hero has K Q

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 600.00, fold, Hero raises to 1,395.00, fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 795.00

Flop: (3510.00, 2 players) 5 6 T
MP+1 bets 855.00, Hero....
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-26-2012 , 05:05 PM
I just openes a wallnuss with my teeth like an elephant
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-26-2012 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lissistinkt
I just openes a wallnuss with my teeth like an elephant
Do you understand what have you said? Cause I don`t....
Want to spam - Marc is waiting you in MTTc.

Spoiler:
Don`t derail it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-26-2012 , 06:35 PM
Sigh fold, although it's really weak.
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-26-2012 , 11:10 PM
would flat pre
and fold flop...
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-26-2012 , 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinGuthOBV
and fold flop...
??????????????????????
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 03:45 AM
Yep fold flop. Dude you don't have to win every hand
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 05:51 AM
your high diamonds/two overs r/c this with these SPR and your stack, same for sets/overpairs
your rep **** flatting flop/raising later in the hand, you cant really call down w/o a read if you hit Qx/Kx. raise flop > flat, fold is the low variance route, with your stack i think raising is ok as well unless you have a terrible image (which you prolly have)

and pre is ok if he mostly flats stuff you dominate, as is flatting vs his opening range, just go with the flow.
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 06:56 AM
You obviously get a great prize on raising to like 2k but i dont think he has too many complete airballs here that fold and just peels nearly everytime and we dont want to barrel

Furo explained why calling sucks so i go for fold

Pre is fine imo i mean its party ur not getting 4balled light and its just great to get this hi ip with initiative

Maddinguth learned what a gameplan is itt and other threads lol
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 11:57 AM
still dont get - just bc its mono board and he added a drop to the pot you fold everything except NFDs, flopped flushes and overpairs?

Guess he can exploit you a ton with these tiny donkbets.

I dont get furo obsession with raising somewhere, you cant not doing it? though, its not strange at all.
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 12:09 PM
its not like u have a lot hands here with worse equity than kq no fd (maybe u missread the hand cause ur drunk)
and its not like it is important to be balanced here
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
I dont get furo obsession with raising somewhere, you cant not doing it? though, its not strange at all.
yea its hard to imagine to raise this flop for value and mix some semibluffs in...
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 12:22 PM
why would raise flopped nuts if you still havent said a word about his perceived range for small donk bet?

I agree eaising flop is viable, I meant if I call flop I donr have to raise turn as you suggested.

Lissi, Im not asking how to win this hand, but you all together said fold bc our cards are s*it not saying a word about how you perceive his range which is more important bc we'll neef cards at showdown only.
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 12:28 PM
so post the rest of the hand after flatting flop
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 02:33 PM
He's seen you "do a lot of spew," but he bet so small! Pretty sure there's no way he's inducing! Small bets are always weak. Just go all in, he's too weak to call.
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-27-2012 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverScaredB
He's seen you "do a lot of spew," but he bet so small! Pretty sure there's no way he's inducing! Small bets are always weak. Just go all in, he's too weak to call.
I agree with what all guys before said and you`re making a legit point as well, generally I`m trying to direct this conversation further than just "fold, you have nothing".

In game my thoughts were he shouldn`t necessarily lead nuts, bc Im not the one who like to click buttons a ton otf (or lets say if I raise, he 3b-jams I wouldn`t be like wtf and wouldn`t call with my whole range which has at least some kind of equity vs some std value range) and considering I`d cbet this board close to always he could protect his c/r-ing range by adding flopped flushes there as well and once again he led just 4% of flops in 1.5k hands.

he could led 9d9x, 8d8x, some Tx with a diamond (considering he`s calling 3bets wide pre).

I also can be balanced and have wide calling range on this flop vs his unusual line, including flushes, some NFD+pairs or pure NFD and some overpairs with diamond, so I called....

PartyGaming - $50+$4|150/300 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP+1: 13,686.00
LP: 29,506.00
Hero (CO): 22,667.00
BTN: 10,952.00
SB: 5,960.00
BB: 11,180.00
UTG: 19,128.00
UTG+1: 8,657.00
MP: 12,350.00

MP+1 posts ante 30.00, LP posts ante 30.00, Hero posts ante 30.00, BTN posts ante 30.00, SB posts ante 30.00, BB posts ante 30.00, UTG posts ante 30.00, UTG+1 posts ante 30.00, MP posts ante 30.00, SB posts SB 150.00, BB posts BB 300.00

Pre Flop: (720.00) Hero has K Q

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 600.00, fold, Hero raises to 1,395.00, fold, fold, fold, MP+1 calls 795.00

Flop: (3510.00, 2 players) 5 6 T
MP+1 bets 855.00, Hero calls 855.00

Turn: (5220.00, 2 players) K
MP+1 bets 2,410.00 (he has 9k behind)....

His AF is 2 otf and 0.8 ott, fcked spot?
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-28-2012 , 12:45 AM
tough spot .., shoving ott only gets called by better..
but in villains spot it makes sense to lead with some fd's+pairs then checkcall'n them.
against this type of villain though, im calling ott and deciding otr.
dont think hell bluff much rivers , even a diamond because u can often rep a diamond w/ur perceived range by 3b otf ip.. but yeah its a tricky spot indeed.
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-28-2012 , 08:53 AM
do you have a read that villian likes to call 3b oop?
if not i dont like pre.

as played foling flop is certainly fine

as to raising/flatting: I think that depends a lot on your own style, how much u raise when u are lead into IP. would you raise TPGK? NFD? OP? Flushes?

If I was to do anything I'd flat flop, you also get to rep flushes later when a 4th hits, but I can def see merits of raising, depending on style/image.

but still elepant u should rather try to reduce variance, cause this spot doesnt look like a big moneymaker at all

edit: as played call turn
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-28-2012 , 12:08 PM
i dont agree on your gameplan, but for arguments sake

if you want to float flops and press buttons (and think its +EV) it's not a fold once you hit the top of your range
this is (by your own definition/gameplan) no ****ed up spot and you should be excited about it. get more chips in or call down.
if you cant call down with the ~top of your range back to the gameplan.
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-29-2012 , 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
I agree with what all guys before said and you`re making a legit point as well, generally I`m trying to direct this conversation further than just "fold, you have nothing".
Fold, you have nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
In game my thoughts were he shouldn`t necessarily lead nuts, bc Im not the one who like to click buttons a ton otf
Yup, you sure didn't do that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
considering I`d cbet this board close to always he could protect his c/r-ing range by adding flopped flushes there as well
If he knows exactly how you suck, he'll probably check raise a lot. But if he doesn't, he'll probably do whatever he thinks will make you spazz out the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
and once again he led just 4% of flops in 1.5k hands.
This wasn't a reason to continue in the hand the first time you said it and no matter how many times you say it, someone who leads 4% on the flop over 1500 hands is still not going to have a wide enough range for you to continue against profitably with the bottom of your range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
he could led 9d9x, 8d8x, some Tx with a diamond (considering he`s calling 3bets wide pre).
Still not an argument for continuing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elephants_pride
I also can be balanced and have wide calling range on this flop vs his unusual line, including flushes, some NFD+pairs or pure NFD and some overpairs with diamond, so I called....
Cool story. You can also have K high no diamond, which means he can pretty comfortably pile chips in with his whole range any way he chooses to on any turn and it will be profitable. Just because he runs into the nuts sometimes doesn't make it bad.

Instead of trying to exploit someone with a tight range who's betting small into you (because he knows you're a spazz) by spazzing, try to exploit him by chuckling that he missed your ******ed ~100% frequency c-bet and lose the absolute minimum
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-29-2012 , 08:31 AM
thanks for extensive reply, Ben. You're great, we know that.
But there's no point in being so mad, esp considering its new year eve. HNY!
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-29-2012 , 02:25 PM
You can fold or raise flop and get ready to barrel off the other streets in case he c/calls on a blank turn and river
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote
12-29-2012 , 07:20 PM
I'm totally okay abusing 30 big blind stack like this pre flop. Question is do we have any fold equity verses a week made hand like a small diamond and a small pair if we raise our ship it on the flop?

I don't think so which is why I'm in the fold camp OTF.
r, need a plan in 3bet pot (it might be really simple) Quote

      
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