Small field tournament. 41 entries. 4 get paid. We're down to roughly 14 people.


Hero is in SB with a 55k stack (about average)
blinds are 500/1000 with a 1000 BB ante.


Whale UTG (32k) limps. He's played most hands. Doesn't really seem to be following any kind of strategy. Has shown up with all sorts of muck played in odd ways.

Folds to HJ who's short stacked and shoves for his last 5k

Folds to me and I have 7 7

So first decision point: Do I flat or raise here?

In game I flatted, which I think was an error. I should shove here as I don't love potentially going multi-way to a flop OOP with BB (who I also cover) and UTG with a medium pair right?

Folds back to UTG who announces he's all in.

It's an additional 27k to me

My read on UTG was that, yes, he was capable of doing this with AA/KK but also all sorts of other random stuff as well, including smaller pockets pairs to mine.

In game, I reasoned that there was a good chance I was against 4 over-cards but since 2 of those were only for the smaller main pot then I would still be making chips if I could beat UTG's hand. If I lost I would be down to 20ish bb - not great but still with a fighting chance. Mainly though with only 4 getting paid I felt like I needed to gamble and take a spot like this.

Is that reasoning sound or would it be more prudent to fold to the weird limp-shove and have a 50bb stack to work with?

I think it's important to try to be one step ahead for situations like this. Before calling the 5bb all-in, since you feel there is a very legitimate chance the UTG whale is going to limp-jam, if you feel your hand is too good to fold to his shove but not good enough to call his shove, then you need to make sure you don't get into this situation (and I think those are both fair assessments as like you said he may shove worse making it tough to fold given the price, but I also don't love the induce/call off here since some of the bottom range things he may have still flip you like JTs KJo KQ etc)

I think if whale had 5-10bb more then call/folding to his shove seems fine but with current configuration I prefer jamming (or even folding here seems reasonable if you think he's going to limp/jam a healthy amount of the time) Can't fault you for any option here but I think the lesson I would derive from this is try to be one step ahead and predict common outcomes. I often tell my students if you find yourself between two sub optimal decision points then it likely means you made a mistake at the prior decision juncture. So try to be one step ahead. Good luck!

I would fold initially, but could shove initially. If you shove and get HU with the short stack, you don't get that much, but you risk your stack in case UTG has a hand. Let UTG call the short stack and stay out of it. If you had 99 or AQ for example, I would definitely shove.

I don't think you can flat call, not just because UTG can shove. It would be nasty if he bets into the dry side pot, and you would usually have no idea where you are at with 77.

Whether we can shove or not depends entirely on BB's stack size. If BB has more chips than us I wouldn't want to shove. If BB has < 32k I would consider shoving.

Ultimately the problem is whether or not UTG would call with 2 overcards. Is he a calling station? Also, he plays a lot of hands but does he open limp from EP much?

Assuming BB has < 32k, if we are going to flat then we must fold to a shove. If we are going to call the shove then we must shove first so that UTG will fold some hands like KQ/AT maybe even 88/AJ

As played I would fold after the call because at best we are flipping and it's for 50k. I doubt UTG would jam with 22-66, he would just call.

As played, if you consider the Villain you describe (Whale at this buy-in, game all over the map, probably likes to think he is tricky,) this might be a good fold.

I think you will see him holding an overlarge number of big hands here, that he has limped with intending to check raise any bet. As Rick said, he is unlikely to make this move with an underpair to your 77's, so at best you will usually be looking at a flip for stacks , even if this is a stone bluff on his part and all he has is K-J or Q-10 or something.

That being said, you would have been much better off if you had raised than you were after you flatted the short stack's bet. You are always much better off if you force your opponent to react to what you do.

I would probably raise it rather than go all in; make it 13.5k or maybe 15k to go and see what he does. If he goes all in behind you at least you know you haven't fallen victim to a simple squeeze play.

By merely calling, you gave up control of the action to the Villain, who then quite smartly put you to a tough decision, wherein you have to think you are either dominated or flipping.

Bet-call or even bet-fold are much better plays than limp-call or a weak-ass limp-fold.

This to me is a clear iso jam. We can sit here and deliberate whether or not UTG limp traps stronger hands knowing that the “whale” is short and shoves a bunch - but this is such an uncommon spot I don’t think it needs to be pondered in great detail. What I would try to do is focus more on the common spots and master those, as thats were a **** ton of your EV comes from. Most of the time UTG limp folds vs your jam, unless you have a specific read on said player. Piling over flatting gets UTG to fold out hands he might come over the top with vs flats i.e some suited/off-suit broadway type hands AJ, KQ, KJ etc etc. As played, id just fold. Can’t see UTG piling underpairs to yours, and no need to flip at 50 vs some of the other stuff he can now comfortably jam.

Shoving initially is reasonable. However, you are about even with the short stacks range, so it picks up about 1.7xBB on average if you isolate. I am not sure it is worth it, due to the off chance the BB has a big hand or the limper is trapping. So I would just fold, but it is close whether to push or fold.

Yeah, this type of spots when holding a middle pair are difficult. And in terms of chips it's not much to gain from them on avg I think.

I also believe it's difficult to assess the whale's range. Some limp fish folds most of the time to shoves. Others call with all sorts of semi-junk, seemingly obsessed with the idea no one is going to push them off a hand they want to play. Even players somewhere in between probably will call every pair from 6-7 and up. Plus a lot of Ax and broadway hands like 2pairsof2s wrote. So I think FE often is limited and we will not do very well against his range.

There's also the fact BB is left to act and can wake up with a hand. So all things considered I think I would fold. Maybe 99 or TT is a shove, they also have the advantage of reducing straight possibilities when whale calls with broadways.

If I was down to 15-20 BB and this was below average stack I'd probably shove, but even that might be at least a slight mistake.

99 is a lot better than 77, because most of the time you isolate and it has a lot more equity versus the short stack's range. Sometimes it will make a difference if the fishy limper calls light.

Yes, an easy shove if you had 15xBB.

I think, a reasonable option here is to simply fold, when the action first gets to you. If it was just HJ jamming for his last 5BB, then its reasonable to stick in a call and hope, that BB gets out of the way, so they you play a "flip" against HJ for his 5BB with some overlay. However when someone has limped, that kind of complicates things, and HJ should also be on a tighter range, since he has almost no fold equity against a limper. As you say, you are not to happy about it, if the limper call, but if you are going to jam for 32BB just to make him fold, then you are risking far to many chips just to push him out and share his 1BB with HJ. So jamming or 3-betting is definitely not the play here, while calling is ok-ish. However when the limper now jam, I would fold. Its a protected pot, since even if you fold, he still need to beat HJ at showdown. So unless he is completely clueless, he is not going to have any bluffs here. Also you get to see his hand, since he has to showdown against HJ. So if he does in fact show up with some nonsense, then you can take a note on it and adjust accordingly in future hands.