Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem MTT
Blinds: $50/$100
9 players

UTG: $7875
UTG+1: $6150
MP1: $1555
MP2: $7710
MP3: $3015
CO: $4745
Button: $7485
hero: $3010
BB: $5405
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) hero is SB with J J
3 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises to $350, CO folds, Button calls, hero raises all-in $3010, 2 folds, MP3 raises all-in $3015.
Uncalled bets: $5 returned to MP3.

flat-calling is out of the question, re-raising? or just plain shove? thoughts appreciated thanks

I don't like any line but shove.

Well... first I dont think a flat call is horrid, we only have one player to act and the limper, and with 3 people already in for a big raise and calls, I dont think the BB messes around with much, unless he isn't real good. The limper wants to play multi-way so hes likely to call or fold.

So were flat calling for 300 to win easily 3k, so we are indeed getting 10 to 1 on a set mine, and either pfr or button will bet most all boards with a jack, so were highly likely to get paid well when we flop it.

Now, as to wether we should shove here... I think its really difficult to assign them to nitty enough ranges that we shouldnt. Even if MP is raising only top 4% and button is calling top 7% and might fold some of those to our push, we still are getting enough pot equity to make a push here with jacks.

Jacks are a hand I usually felt, unless we have a raise followed by another raise, and both players are nits. If either player is relatively loose, the ranges generally work out in favor of our jacks, and jacks are mostly a hand that like to see showdowns, because out of position we often end up folding the best hand. Now if the ranges are nitty, thats no longer true, but we have enough equity against AK/AQ/AJ that if hands as bad as AJ are in either players range, we should consider felting. Given the stack sizes and tournament amount, I dont think its possible to eliminate AJ from either players holdings, so a felt here is perfectly reasonable, in my book. I do think however that we can flat call to mine a set here. BB and the limper are really not that likely to felt over a flat call, and even if they do, were likely to assume its a wide bluff and felt anyway, if the raise and caller both fold. Whatever tho, thats not going to happen, if we smooth call, they both fold, we see a flop 3 ways with 1250 in the pot for our 300 call, and we are highly likely to make 1800 more at least if we flop a set.

But given the sizes of stacks and our position, I prefer a shove preflop here.

This is a standard call for me pf.

I don't see the need to risk 3k to win 600, when I can get instacalled by QQ-AA, or called by AK, losing then kicking myself for overplaying my jacks. Is this faulty reasoning?

I can call 10% of my stack and wait for no A, K to show up and make money of a cbet, or hit a set and double up.

Obviously if pfr is loose, it's a different story I prolly shove pf, but given no reads, I just call pf.

Someone explain to me why I'm off please, thanks.

I like overbet-shoving here b/c MP3 or Button if they have a PP will put u on AK and call, thinking they have a race with dead money in the pot. I would prob shove all big PP's here unless MP3 is the type that always calls a 3-4X RR.

I would almost never flatcall here OOP, with these size stacks.