[LOW] $25 GGMasters Bounty spot
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 4
Early stages 80% remain. Hero in SB with 50bb w. 9h9s. UTG (70bb) opens 2bb, BU (60bb) calls, Hero calls, BB(65bb) calls.
Would 3bet here occassionally, but mostly play this kind of spot as a call, with TT as my first pure 3betting pair. The fact that I don't cover any other player in the pot makes raising less attractive in my view.
Flop - Th 7c 5d (9bb) -- Hero x, BB x, UTG x, BU b3.3, Hero call, BB fold, UTG fold.
I considered folding here, BU has all the sets, and an ample amount of Tx, and UTG and BB could still have Tx+, I ending up calling as the bet was small, and generally I feel like population tends to cbet with the stronger parts of their range on boards like this - somewhat connected, but not particularly wet, so expected few traps from UTG.
Turn - 6h (15.6bb) Hero x, BU b7.8, Hero ??
I initially liked this turn as it brings me a gutshot, but facing a half pot bet leads me to believe that BU is not betting a hand I beat other than the strongest draws, some of which I block (A/K/Q/J 9 hearts), but even then I don't think a half pot sizing makes much sense for those holdings. BU does not have aggro stats after 40 hands (20% vpip, 12% pfr, 4% 3b), but the fact I had a gutshot, and blocked the nuts, made this a difficult decision.
If I call, I could well be drawing to 6 or less outs, and face another tough decision on the river - raising feels dangerous as BU's range contains many hands that are crushing me - and folding feels somewhat nitty despite the fact BU bet into 4 players on the flop.
Do you fold, call, or raise? Very interested in hearing opinions on every decision point in this hand. Thanks for reading, looking forward to your responses.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,435
Definitely good with preflop.
Flop it gets iffy. BTN throws out a small bet against a tight UTG range and a BB that can hit that flop hard. That seems nutty to me. It seems weak to fold there but at the same time it's easy to see how things can get really messy on later streets. But I can get behind the "call and see what develops" play.
Turn is where I bail. The gutter doesn't give you enough equity on the turn drawing to 4 outs, and BTN following up his flop bet with the half pot barrel on that card looks very strong.
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 294
Second the above pretty much. Low stakes players generally don't find many bluffs multiway when they aren't the preflop aggressor. I would figure him for a T, set, or 2 pair. If he did bluff with a draw, the most likely one (89) gets there on the turn. It sounds tight but I probably just fold flop, and definitely turn if we get that far.
Preflop might theoretically be wrong but in 95% of low stakes games you can get away with calling as the BB will not put in a squeeze very often.
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 4
Cheers guys, I did end up folding for the reasons you both described. Folding flop could well be the best move as the small bet by BU is so rarely a bluff, as mentioned.
It got me thinking about whether we ever have any bluffs in spots like this, and what our bluffcatchers would look like. For example, if I held QTcc would calling this turn be worthwhile? ATs would definitely continue and I suppose KTs too?
What about hands like T9s/87s - they have additional outs, but would these function better as bluff raises as they block the straight and sets/the rare 2pair combos, while losing to the top pair region of Villian's range, which would likely fold to a raise without a redraw.
I think I fold my backdoor flush draws without a pair on the flop, so if I do have bluffs I can't really draw from these. If I held A7hh or A5hh, would I ever want to raise, or just call and realise equity. If I did raise, what sizing would I use? A small raise sizing would make for awkward river spots if called, and a jam feels like I would only isolating against hands that have me crushed.
Multiway pots always make my head spin a bit, and I know the general consensus is to play straightforward and snug, but I feel like there are opportunities to win chips that can be missed by blindly sticking to these rules.
I've rambled a bit, and haven't really come to any conclusions. Any thoughts you guys might have would be appreciated!
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,435
Meh, general rules are general rules for a reason. I don't think there's much value to spending your time working on a spot that requires such perfect circumstances that you'll rarely encounter it. Better to stick with the general rules in spots like this and focus on your play in the spots that come up more regularly.
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 294
Yeah, not sure if we want to be thinking about bluffing multiway that much, especially here. The opponent is going to have 2 pair or better and never fold a higher than normal percentage of the time given he bet into three people without the lead. I prefer to bluff in spots where people have already shown some kind of weakness, or we can estimate their range as weak. (For instance, a gutshot when we have the range advantage like 754 and we defended our BB).
Regarding continue range I would probably call KT and definitely AT, but it depends heavily on the opponent.