30 of 60 left paying 9.
At 400/800/800 we’re at 12k most around 20-40k.
UTG limps, I shove with ATos. Folds to BB who tank calls from roughly 15k stack with 44. Original raiser folds.
Because we are not near the money I am shoving with this hand and 15 bb's. I'm buying in again if I don't double up here so either way if somebody calls I will have a lot more chips (assuming we start with 30,000),
A lot depends on the limper. If they have hands that call here, we probably shouldn't shove, as the combination of that player and the table makes this marginal at best. If they are always folding, and we can treat it like an extra dead BB, I think we are ok shoving here, but this is definitely bottom of that range; not shoving A9 or KT.
Thanks, I realized when I first read it I assumed you were UTG+1, but then I read it again and you didn't actually say that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3for3poker
A lot depends on the limper. If they have hands that call here, we probably shouldn't shove, as the combination of that player and the table makes this marginal at best. If they are always folding, and we can treat it like an extra dead BB, I think we are ok shoving here, but this is definitely bottom of that range; not shoving A9 or KT.
Yeah, I think that's right. The extra BB makes it fine to shove here-- I think it's a decent rule of thumb that shoving is fine if you can add at least 20% to your stack without showdown.
I would probably fold, but depends on the limper. Theoretically, you could shove if the limp is totally dead money. There is a possibility the limper will call with a similar strength hand to yours. Occasionally, the UTG limper could be trapping. I wouldn't risk my stack with such a marginal spot. There should be better spots later on. Your position, stack size, and hand strength are awkward. Raise/fold, limp behind, and shove do not look good, so fold.
44 call is really bad, but not surprising. Sometimes, donks don't like to fold a playable hand.
I would probably fold, but depends on the limper. Theoretically, you could shove if the limp is totally dead money. There is a possibility the limper will call with a similar strength hand to yours. Occasionally, the UTG limper could be trapping. I wouldn't risk my stack with such a marginal spot. There should be better spots later on. Your position, stack size, and hand strength are awkward. Raise/fold, limp behind, and shove do not look good, so fold.
44 call is really bad, but not surprising. Sometimes, donks don't like to fold a playable hand.
It's strange...there are the players who 'don't want to take a flip' (like not jamming AK), which I sort of understand, even though they are wrong.
Then there are the players who seek out a flip. That's just lunacy.
It's strange...there are the players who 'don't want to take a flip' (like not jamming AK), which I sort of understand, even though they are wrong.
Then there are the players who seek out a flip. That's just lunacy.
Yeh, as a short stack, you should get some good shoving or reshoving spots and maybe a big hand. I don't see the point of gambling your stack like this at close to even cEV.
That seems pretty bad. Sometimes you have to fold. If you make it 3xBB, limper always at least calls. So you see a flop, maybe multiway, with 1/5 of your stack in the pot. Theoretically, you might raise/gii with QQ+, so you could balance with raise/folds, but this hand doesn't have that good playability.
I understand it is a playable hand. However, you can play worse hands, shoving or reshoving in the right spots, as well as defend your BB.
Yeah I wouldn't raise/fold after a limp off 15BB either.
I think it depends on what you think of the limper. If he's trapping a lot, then obviously don't do this. If he's limping hands he might fold or even marginal hands he might call with that you're flipping or even ahead of (77 / KQs, things of that nature) then shove. (We don't seek out flips so much as we accept them as a consequence when our shoves are called.)
Having him in the pot also works as a potential deterrent to anyone else calling light, since they still have to worry about him when he's already declared interest in the hand. (Obviously, that deterrent effect did not work here-- but that was just a bad call; 44's not even a call from BB closing the action vs. a 15BB UTG+1 shove when UTG isn't in the hand. Especially not for >75% of his stack!)
The shove is at most 0.5BBs +EV, depending on reads on the limper. The idea of playing a short stack is to stay in the tournament. With 15xBB, you are not about to get blinded out. You can shove lighter if you get shorter. There should be better shove steal situations and late position, maybe with a little weaker hands. Maybe open shove in late position, shove over a late position open, or shove at multiple limpers. You don't want to shove your stack into a most of a table who are almost always calling with hands that dominate yours.
The shove is at most 0.5BBs +EV, depending on reads on the limper. The idea of playing a short stack is to stay in the tournament. With 15xBB, you are not about to get blinded out. You can shove lighter if you get shorter. There should be better shove steal situations and late position, maybe with a little weaker hands. Maybe open shove in late position, shove over a late position open, or shove at multiple limpers. You don't want to shove your stack into a most of a table who are almost always calling with hands that dominate yours.
I don't think it's bad if you weren't UTG-1
There's like a 3rd of your stack in there already, but just so many
people that can act behind you that call with AJ, 66+
You can also 'stop-n-go', limp and shove alot of flops, you probably aren't getting called alot with those stacks.
