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 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs  MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs

05-05-2024 , 07:03 PM
In the money, around 70 left I think, got 23 hands on villain:

vpip 39, pfr 26, 3b 25

PokerStars - 5000/10000 Ante 1200 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 284,624
MP: 201,845
CO: 476,736
Hero (BTN): 572,179
SB: 531,612
BB: 503,205
UTG: 257,916

7 players post ante of 1,200, SB posts SB 5,000, BB posts BB 10,000

Pre Flop: (pot: 23,400) Hero has J Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 22,500, SB raises to 95,000, fold, Hero calls 72,500

Flop: (208,400, 2 players) J 4 T
SB bets 68,772, Hero calls 68,772

Turn: (345,944, 2 players) 4
SB bets 114,162, Hero raises to 407,207 and is all-in, SB calls 252,478 and is all-in

River: (1,079,224, 2 players) 8
 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs Quote
05-05-2024 , 08:21 PM
Calling the 3! is lose passive low stakes style, but is just awful. I would mostly shove or fold. You might flat call with some hands, but this hand is not one of them. You steal raised and got caught.

Postflop, if he really has TT-AA or AJ/KJ, you are in trouble.

Not sure if you have reads, but people bluff 3! less at low stakes.
 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs Quote
05-06-2024 , 06:52 AM
Preflop
Opening is of course standard, but facing a more than 4X 3-bet I would just snap fold. Or rather hollywood a bit before folding, but I would not even for a moment consider to do anything other than fold with a hand this bad.

Flop
The issue with calling preflop is, pot is going to be 208k, and he only has 436k left behind. Which makes it difficult for you to get away, when you flop top pair. And really what are you hoping for here, other than he is bluffing, he wont get there, and he will shut it down? As played you kind of have to call now, but its a reverse implied odds situation, and this is why, we fold preflop.

Turn
Now he only has a little over a pot sized bet left, and he does not shut down. Instead he put in around 1/3 of his remaining chips. I understand, its tough to fold, when you still have top pair, and nothing improved on this card. But when you jam, you are only getting called by better hands and occationally a good draw. So as played I call again, and even though its less than a half pot sized bet left for river, I fold to a river jam, unless the river is a Q or J.
 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs Quote
05-06-2024 , 08:05 AM
I wouldn't say calling the 3bet is awful, it's a pure call in GTOland. That said, I agree that exploitatively folding preflop could be the best option given that people 3bet a bit too strong here.

On the turn I would just call again. If he has us beat he gets us anyway, but by jamming you isolate yourself against the hands that beat you and allow him to fold bluffs. Given you have the overcard and club you're a little less scared on rivers.

I'd be planning to call down though. Folding river to such a small sizing would be an extreme overfold, one that I don't think can be justified given the BTN/SB formation and double-broadway-brick texture.
 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs Quote
05-06-2024 , 07:06 PM
It may be a GTO call, but it is a disaster in a $2 tournament where 3! ranges are so strong. You wind up stacking off with top pair against a likely overpair.
 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs Quote
05-06-2024 , 07:25 PM
Thanks everyone

ps: he had KJo XD
 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs Quote
05-07-2024 , 06:57 PM
What would be a reasonable guess about what sort of hands a typical micro player on the loose side would 3-bet pre and then barrel 2 streets here:

TT (3 combos), JJ (1 hand), QQ (3 combos), KK (6 combos), AA (6 combos), AJ (8 combos), KJ (8 combos) = 35 combos all of whom have Hero beat (He's a 84-16 underdog on the flop and 92-8 on the turn)

So what hand might he (semi)bluff with that might have 3-bet pre? Obv we don't know, but let's assume all AK (16 combos) and KQ (12 combos) does it. I doubt even LAG micro barrel turn often with 99/88/77. Maybe also AT for value (12 combos) if he's willing to bet his money on Hero don't having a jack.

If his range is this wide Hero suddenly becomes only a 55-45 underdog on the turn. But remove AT (I think many players would check turn) and AK ( keeping KQ because of having both overcards and straights outs) and Hero is 64-36 underdog.

At best it seems to be a marginal spot and I don't think we can count on much FE on the turn. Against many micro players it's probably right to assume there's very few if any bluffs in villains range when he barrels turn. Maybe it's still a call after all and like Fundiver wrote fold to all bets on the river unless a Q or J comes. It sucks of course, but Hero will still have a playable stack. Even more so if he does the tight but probably/maybe good fold on the turn.
 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs Quote
05-07-2024 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishNit
What would be a reasonable guess about what sort of hands a typical micro player on the loose side would 3-bet pre and then barrel 2 streets here:

TT (3 combos), JJ (1 hand), QQ (3 combos), KK (6 combos), AA (6 combos), AJ (8 combos), KJ (8 combos) = 35 combos all of whom have Hero beat (He's a 84-16 underdog on the flop and 92-8 on the turn)

So what hand might he (semi)bluff with that might have 3-bet pre? Obv we don't know, but let's assume all AK (16 combos) and KQ (12 combos) does it. I doubt even LAG micro barrel turn often with 99/88/77. Maybe also AT for value (12 combos) if he's willing to bet his money on Hero don't having a jack.

If his range is this wide Hero suddenly becomes only a 55-45 underdog on the turn. But remove AT (I think many players would check turn) and AK ( keeping KQ because of having both overcards and straights outs) and Hero is 64-36 underdog.

At best it seems to be a marginal spot and I don't think we can count on much FE on the turn. Against many micro players it's probably right to assume there's very few if any bluffs in villains range when he barrels turn. Maybe it's still a call after all and like Fundiver wrote fold to all bets on the river unless a Q or J comes. It sucks of course, but Hero will still have a playable stack. Even more so if he does the tight but probably/maybe good fold on the turn.
Don't forget pot odds. If Hero is a 64-36 dog, it is not a marginal spot but a clearly +EV call since we only need around 20% equity to call the small bet.
 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs Quote
05-10-2024 , 02:08 PM
Pre is a pretty std fold considering the sizing. Was there specific reasoning for the call? That's what I would focus on to make sure you're thinking through that spot better so you don't end up there again in the future.
 MTT, QJo on the BU with 57BBs Quote

      
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