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04-20-2014 , 11:43 PM
Can someone explain to me why this is only call AA in this spot? I suppose I could have found the fold button on this one, but are we really going to fold KK here?

This is what SNGWIZ says
Pokerstars : NLHE 6-max (65,35)
Blinds:100/200
EqP%: 21.32
EqF%: 26.08
Diff%: -4.76
Edge%: 0.00
Suggest: Fold
0.5 (AA)

Poker Stars $13.92+$1.08 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 3 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: t5128 25.64 BBs
Hero (BB): t1236 6.18 BBs
BTN: t2636 13.18 BBs

Pre Flop: (t300) Hero is BB with T T
BTN calls t200, SB raises to t600, Hero raises to t1236 all in, BTN calls t1036, SB raises to t5128 all in, BTN calls t1400 all in

Flop: (t6508) 8 6 K (3 players - 3 are all in)

Turn: (t6508) 9 (3 players - 3 are all in)

River: (t6508) 8 (3 players - 3 are all in)
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04-21-2014 , 01:08 AM
Look at what Wiz assumes happens if you fold. Wiz has the BTN pushing his full limping range. Since the BTN would be heads up against the big stack his pushing range should be much smaller. Changing his pushing range to a more reasonable 10% makes it an easy push for you (Diff%: 3.05, pushing range: 77, AQ, AJs). Basically Wiz is saying you don't need to get involved without the nuts since it overestimates the likelihood that you crawl into the money by folding.
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04-21-2014 , 02:42 AM
I made the following changes:
Button: open%=37.9, call%=5.4
SB: open%=22.5, call%=22.5

I think based on unknown players at this buy in level this would be fairly accurate. I also am assuming the big stack would be calling his full opening range. With these changes it is still telling me that AA is my only option.

The only way that I am able to get it to display TT or lower is if I am increasing buttons percentages to nearly 50% and his calling 50% as well, rather then lowering it.

BTW as the result had it, button had AK and sb had JJ and I obviously ended up losing the hand. I guess the more I think about the hand the more sense it makes. I suppose it would become a lot more relevant had it been at higher stake.
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04-21-2014 , 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtransfer
I made the following changes:
Button: open%=37.9, call%=5.4
SB: open%=22.5, call%=22.5
You need to change the "Button Push" range under the "Hero Fold" section of the "Analysis Details" at the bottom of the Wiz window. By default it says that the BTN will push his full limping range over the big stack's raise when you fold, which is not realistic.
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04-21-2014 , 08:03 AM
Ill be honest, i have no experience with SNG wizzard but i tried to run it throu icimizer and this is what i always get TT extremly proffitable http://s1129.photobucket.com/user/Ma.../ICM1.jpg.html
And here i tighten up calling range of SB still almost same result http://s1129.photobucket.com/user/Ma.../ICM2.jpg.html If i made any mistake at all please let me know im kinda new into ICMizer and math it includes and i would profit from your comments about any kind of fail i made, hope it was helpfull
Any ideas why i couldnt post Images ? They just didnt appear when i coppied the link :/
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04-21-2014 , 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejty-san
Ill be honest, i have no experience with SNG wizzard but i tried to run it throu icimizer and this is what i always get TT extremly proffitable http://s1129.photobucket.com/user/Ma.../ICM1.jpg.html
And here i tighten up calling range of SB still almost same result http://s1129.photobucket.com/user/Ma.../ICM2.jpg.html If i made any mistake at all please let me know im kinda new into ICMizer and math it includes and i would profit from your comments about any kind of fail i made, hope it was helpfull
Any ICM calculation - whether its done by SNG Wizard, Holdem Resources Calculator, ICMizer, etc - needs to assign opponent ranges. Without opponent ranges we couldn't calculate our equity when we fold and our equity when we push, the difference between the two being used to determine whether we should push or fold. Both HRC and ICMizer use Nash ranges for default opponent ranges. SNG Wiz apparently uses some proprietary method to come up with opponent ranges.

Sometimes Wiz ranges can be just terribly unrealistic, as in the default BTN reshove range when we fold in the OP. I find Nash ranges to be way off in many situations, at least in the micro games I play, as these ranges have opponents pushing and calling much wider than they actually do in game. So, for hands that you study closely, you need to manually set opponent ranges according to typical play that you see in your games or particular reads on individual players. And you need to do this at all points in the game tree, which includes opponent actions that occur after you fold, as in the case with setting the BTN reshove range when we fold for the hand in the OP.

Last edited by justsayin; 04-21-2014 at 09:18 AM.
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04-21-2014 , 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by justsayin
Any ICM calculation - whether its done by SNG Wizard, Holdem Resources Calculator, ICMizer, etc - needs to assign opponent ranges. Without opponent ranges we couldn't calculate our equity when we fold and our equity when we push, the difference between the two being used to determine whether we should push or fold. Both HRC and ICMizer use Nash ranges for default opponent ranges. SNG Wiz apparently uses some proprietary method to come up with opponent ranges.

Sometimes Wiz ranges can be just terribly unrealistic, as in the default BTN reshove range when we fold in the OP. I find Nash ranges to be way off in many situations, at least in the micro games I play, as these ranges have opponents pushing and calling much wider than they actually do in game. So, for hands that you study closely, you need to manually set opponent ranges according to typical play that you see in your games or particular reads on individual players. And you need to do this at all points in the game tree, which includes opponent actions that occur after you fold, as in the case with setting the BTN reshove range when we fold for the hand in the OP.
I absolutely agree with all the things you said, i just had no info how good/bad Wizz really is since ive read some posts about differences and used ICMizer as first and i find it amazing, i believe ive made right ranges for them or at least most probable ones to ensure that the result will be fine. Just wanted to post the results from other ICM calculator
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