On the turn I call intending to bluff some rivers and also because I figure I will get paid off for an average of maybe 5k more if I hit my 5. ON the river I want him to fold a Ten, hands like 99, maybe a Queen. I think I like it tbh.

EDIT: Oops sorry it's a $4.40


Poker Stars $4.00+$0.40 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t500/t1000 Blinds + t125 - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t13192 M = 5.03
UTG: t3942 M = 1.50
Hero (UTG+1): t16302 M = 6.21
UTG+2: t2750 M = 1.05
MP1: t27903 M = 10.63
MP2: t23948 M = 9.12
CO: t4275 M = 1.63
BTN: t11140 M = 4.24
SB: t40135 M = 15.29

Pre Flop: (t2625) Hero is UTG+1 with 5 5
1 fold, Hero raises to t2500, 5 folds, SB calls t2000, 1 fold

Flop: (t7125) T 8 J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t7125) J (2 players)
SB bets t2000, Hero calls t2000

River: (t11125) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t11677 all in

Shove or fold pre. Nothing else makes sense with an M of 6.2.

Actually, raise/folding // raise/calling depending on villain stack and reads makes more sense IMO

fold pre tho,

you're oop you only have 16bb and your hand is too hard to play post flop

Yeah I def fold preflop often, but tight table and I had a tight image

You didn't mention any reads at all, therefore I agree w/ RJ.

Villain's line looks weak, and as played I think I like the line if we know villain can fold, but idk if its all that quantifiable here tbh and we're still beating a good % of villain's busted draws/Ax hands that were stabbing OTT. Espeically in a $4 you are in clear and present danger of getting called by Jx, even the occassional 9x that is getting cute and attempting what is usually a bad trap, so again shove at your own risk. I don't think my way of thinking is definitively more +EV though, but if I'm making a mistake by passing up on this kind of bluffing opportunity readless, I'm not losing that much of an edge iyam.

Edit: Yea standard PF open is OK at a tight table and stacks as they are I suppose, but an open shove can't be wrong here I don't think unless there are some ICM considerations we should be conscious of here.

I'm sorry but I'm just never open-shoving anything with 16xbb!! Unless it's like A2o in the SB or something

Then you're probably taking alot of flops unneccessarily in spots like this and spewing post flop, or getting 3bet shoved on readless and being forced to fold under 20BB (which is bad) PF. You may never do it, but it's definitely +EV to shove a pair like 55 w/ our stack even from EP in a FR w/ antes in play at ~15-19/20BB.

Sure, bad things can happen if you just raise. Also many good things can happen. There's a lot of action behind me and I manage not to lose my stack. I flop a set and win a big pot. One of the blinds calls and I have position on them for the rest of the hand. I induce a reshove from worse hands. I get more value out of my premium hands. I have more FE when I do have to start shoving because I haven't already been doing it a bunch. I can play a much wider range of hands if the table is tight.

fold pre
saying you will never open shove 16BB will make for some poor alternative decisions in today's online pokering enviornment

You need 66-77+,AJs+ to open shove here on account of tighter table or something?

lately I have been forgoing a lot of these thinner EP spots with 10-18BB and found that I am better served blinding down a little farther and getting it in for value or shoving wider in LP

just my trend and while I have been chipping up well with it it is obviously a non standard manner of thinking

and yeah prob 77ish and AJs works well depending on table

you guys are just wrong and i'm bored talking about it so can you please stop telling me what to do preflop in my threads thanks

lol...can't put it out there and then run away and hide when you get advice you don't like...also the quality of the post flop line is pretty bad and if you are opening pre relying on outplaying people post with such a bad line you really need to fold pre

Your PF play is bad. Your post flop play is bad. Is that the analysis you were looking for instead of the constructive stuff we're throwing your way?

I did put the hand out there but I never asked for preflop advice. However I realize the general way threads go is that people comment on whatever they feel is important, so fair enough. I respectfully disagree about preflop and have good results and stat comparisons to back up my approach. If you would like to elaborate on why you think postflop is bad, that would be sweet. If not, that's cool too.

Btw I agree with you that I'd rather fold than push here.

What is your plan post flop exactly? Clearly you checked back OTF because the texture is bad and villain could have potentially connected in a # of ways. So why are you calling OTT exactly? A 1/3 sized blocking bet in a pot this size is not a greenlight for you to either A) make hero showdown calls or B) think you can float/bluff in a huge pot like this. Why are you so sure villain could fold something like trips or QT, etc? Just because its a 4 str8 board? You're being overly optimistic w/o reads. I'm folding OTT after having not made a play OTF and not regreting it.

post flop is bad cause:

we raised pre and we flopped a spot where we have near no hand equity so we should just bet fold the flop and try to take it down

turn is horrible...make a decision...stacks are really bad for a float here and we are repping nothing if the guy can hand read...any value hands we play pre should be betting or raising that turn...as played we call the turn and have terrible relative position...what is our plan if he bets the river? 1/3 pot? 1/2 pot? if he shoves? Seems we called for no reason on the turn

river is a w/e shove...if he can hand read at all you will get called pretty much by any value hand

EDIT: I will try to be civil. I disagree strongly about betting flop.

Yeah, I'm sure the pre works well for you dude, but if maybe sometime in the six years that you have been on 2+2 you would have listened, you might not be still playing 4.40s

just sayin

dude i quit playing for like 3 years started playing again a month ago and have gone from literally $0 to $3500 so I'm doing ok thanks

ok...if we are not betting that flop than we should not be opening from a poor position and we should not be calling a turn bet...

mix and match the factors all you want but the hand adds up to spew dude...

not trying to be mean...just calling it as I see it

Keep doing what you are doing then. As played I'm not sure what you're trying to rep or what you expect him to fold that you beat. Just b/f the flop as ssnyc says or just check back and fold the turn.

Edit: Oh and just to add my 2 cents to pre, standard opening this hand with this stack in this position is terrible IMO, fair enough there could be a lot of action behind and you manage not to lose your stack, just fold pre and you dont lose anything. If you flop a set, thats no guarantee of winning a big pot. Also, you may have position on the blinds if they call, but that didnt seem to help you much this hand. You get put in horrible spots like this where you have no idea where you are. And I'm not sure which hands you're hoping to induce a reshove from, are you really r/c this hand from this position? But yeah, if you can standard open this hand profitably from this position with these stacks, you're a better player than me.

alright you're embarrassing me by being classy when i'm being a jerk
sorry

isnt betting flop pretty much the only way u can win this hand? ur plan of outplaying other players sounds nice but its seriously just spewy, especially in a 4$ buy in mtt.
the thread is kinda boring cuz its no discussion, its just u who wants to hear that u r able to outplay 4$ mtt players, not even thinking about any concept of online poker strategy at all. if u dont want to hear any kind of constructive critics, than a forum is prolly not the right place.
i agree with the others obv, preflop is bad, postflop is bad. nuff said.