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<img .5k WPT full house hero fold? <img .5k WPT full house hero fold?

10-28-2023 , 11:40 AM
The field is a big mix in this tournament. There are a lot of lands mines. I have seen A few people do some crazy things. I saw one old guy 3 bet and call a large shove with JTs. I’ve seen a guy 3 bet and call a 35bb shove with T9s. So there are some good players and some land mines.

It’s level 1 and it’s the 5th or 6th hand. We have only played one significant pot where we had quad kings with KK.

We have no history with the villain and no reads. They are middle aged and French Arab.

Oth
Blinds 100/100 W 100 bb ante.

We have 46k from a 40k starting stack.

100/100/100 ante 1st level
We have 77 in Co
Utg raises to 300, mp 3 bets to 1.1k, we call, btn calls, bb calls

Flop 8c 7s 3s
X, x, we bet 2.5k, fold, bb calls, fold, fold

Turn 4s
X, hero bets 6k, calls

River: 3c
X, Hero bets 12k, villain shoves, hero?

What could villain reasonably have that we beat?

We can re-enter this tournament but there is long alternate list.
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10-28-2023 , 12:22 PM
Villain can have a nut flush or even a K high flush though why they didn't c/r the turn is suspicious.

I don't think villain can have 44, A3, or 43 (though possibly 43s). I would rule out 73s and 83s as well.

Villain can have 88 but I am surprised Villain didn't raise on the flop with that hand.

Villain can have 65s and if it is spades it is the nuts and that might explain the call rather than c/r. But some of the time they might c/r here.

I think I call and lose. And I hate the wait.

In these spots I think Villain rarely c/r all in with just a flush. But really the % of possible bluffs and worse hands outweighs the % of hands that win.
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10-28-2023 , 12:34 PM
I don't play tournaments, but assuming this tournament is pretty crazy as you say the action has been, couldn't they just have a flush? The nut flush? Does not seem like a fold.

To me the real mistake here is not folding pre. UTG (!) raises, and MP makes a large 3bet, almost 4x, I think we can pretty comfortably release our hand here. We are probably fine if we never cold call a 3bet pre, especially if we suspect MP does not 3bet wide enough like most players. Even hands like AKo and JJ are probably going to be pretty close to indifferent between cold 4betting and folding. I think if you just cold 4 with QQ+, AKs, maybe AQs, and mix 4bet or fold with JJ/AKo and fold everything else you probably will do fine.

The problem with flatting anything preflop is that you cap your range. You are saying you have QQ, JJ, TT, AQs. And when you cold 4bet, people can very comfortably fold vs you knowing it's likely just KK+, because you are flatting everything else.

You will see a bunch of other players cold calling 3bets a ton with a hand like 77, but I wouldn't try to be like them. Study preflop charts like on GTO Wizard and you will be miles ahead of your competition.
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10-28-2023 , 03:32 PM
I forgot 33. Not a great call pre-flop for BB. Nor would 65s be. Strange hand.
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10-28-2023 , 04:52 PM
I think I'd check the turn - he's calling out of the BB so he can a ton of spade combos. I also don't see 3 streets of value here other than the river card that you got. As played I don't think he has 88 - would think he raises the flop with 33, but maybe not all the time. 56s/33 is all you lose to - I think I call as it sounds like the opponents are all over the place and we can't know for sure he only shoves those 2 hands.
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10-29-2023 , 08:54 AM
Rick, we can rule out 43s, Because he can't have 4s3s, so he would have to be calling 43 suited that is not spades. Is he really going to call bottom pair with 2 players behind him when even when the 4 of spades comes, he is losing to a flush?

The hand was 5 ways to the flop. I think most players won't raise a set here with a 2 players behind them.

Mlark, we are 400BB deep and multiway in position. We are probably going to play every pocket pair in this situation to go set mining. We do have a slight worry about being re-raised behind us or the original raiser 4 betting, but we really have to take these spots early on.
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10-29-2023 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mlark
I don't play tournaments, but assuming this tournament is pretty crazy as you say the action has been, couldn't they just have a flush? The nut flush? Does not seem like a fold.

To me the real mistake here is not folding pre. UTG (!) raises, and MP makes a large 3bet, almost 4x, I think we can pretty comfortably release our hand here. We are probably fine if we never cold call a 3bet pre, especially if we suspect MP does not 3bet wide enough like most players. Even hands like AKo and JJ are probably going to be pretty close to indifferent between cold 4betting and folding. I think if you just cold 4 with QQ+, AKs, maybe AQs, and mix 4bet or fold with JJ/AKo and fold everything else you probably will do fine.

The problem with flatting anything preflop is that you cap your range. You are saying you have QQ, JJ, TT, AQs. And when you cold 4bet, people can very comfortably fold vs you knowing it's likely just KK+, because you are flatting everything else.

You will see a bunch of other players cold calling 3bets a ton with a hand like 77, but I wouldn't try to be like them. Study preflop charts like on GTO Wizard and you will be miles ahead of your competition.


Who cares about capping your range - we're set mining in a multi way pot so this will be played extremely straightforward. With that said I don't know at what stack depth this is a call vs fold - if we're 12% to flop a set the question is how much are we winning when we hit it. This is also a highly exploitable live event as seen by the 5 way action - using GTO Wizard to solve this spot isn't the way to go imo.
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