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Old 10-02-2015, 03:26 AM   #1
AnimaLettire
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Party Bans HUDS

Hey guys,

Just saw ROW Party has banned HUDs and essentially made all cash game seating random
"Players wishing to wait for a cash game will join the room-wide waiting list and be randomly seated when a seat that matches their preference becomes available"

Does anyone (Colette) know if similar things are going to be implemented into the NJ market?

Thanks

Article found here
http://uk.pokernews.com/news/2015/10...ield-19256.htm
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Old 10-02-2015, 04:38 AM   #2
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimaLettire View Post
Hey guys,

Just saw ROW Party has banned HUDs and essentially made all cash game seating random
"Players wishing to wait for a cash game will join the room-wide waiting list and be randomly seated when a seat that matches their preference becomes available"

Does anyone (Colette) know if similar things are going to be implemented into the NJ market?

Thanks

Article found here
http://uk.pokernews.com/news/2015/10...ield-19256.htm

Hi

For now changes are applicable to all .com markets (bwin, party, dankespille etc) excluding NJ
These changes are likely to be implemented at a later date however no time line has been set for this to take place.
I have no further feedback to offer for now regarding implementation in NJ

Thanks

Colette

Colette
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:15 AM   #3
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by Party_Rep View Post
Hi

For now changes are applicable to all .com markets (bwin, party, dankespille etc) excluding NJ
These changes are likely to be implemented at a later date however no time line has been set for this to take place.
I have no further feedback to offer for now regarding implementation in NJ

Thanks

Colette

Colette

can't wait. bring poker back to a game of individuals skill. many people i know would gladly come back to party when this happens (myself included) nice to see party making some decent steps of improvement lately and trying.

seems like PS is moving in a similar direction as well. no need to fall for the bully/regs complaining and whining how theyll all play elsewhere. nj only has limited options. plus many of them depend on online poker for a living/income so what are they going to do?

REPENT VARIANCE IS COMING!!!!
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:25 PM   #4
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

Thanks Colette, I would also be very happy to see a HUD free environment sooner rather than later
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Old 10-02-2015, 03:53 PM   #5
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

I could care less if there are huds or not. but its only going to hurt your sites bottom line if you ban them and your competitors allow them. Regs will just play fewer tables on your site and more on Stars if they allow them.
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:01 PM   #6
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by poorme View Post
can't wait. bring poker back to a game of individuals skill. !
Im not sure you know what a HUD even does.....
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:25 PM   #7
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

Bring it on!
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:37 PM   #8
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

Is rest of world cash games now set up the same way Party NJ was on day one? (No wait lists/lobbys/etc)

How are you enforcing the ban on HUDs? Hoping not the same was as Nevada. (No Hand Histories)
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:08 PM   #9
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by PokerPunFun View Post
Is rest of world cash games now set up the same way Party NJ was on day one? (No wait lists/lobbys/etc)

How are you enforcing the ban on HUDs? Hoping not the same was as Nevada. (No Hand Histories)
It is partially the same. Hand history is only available in the client for 1 year and no downloads are possible.

But PartyPoker's controls go way further than that.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:10 PM   #10
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimaLettire View Post
Hey guys,

Just saw ROW Party has banned HUDs and essentially made all cash game seating random
"Players wishing to wait for a cash game will join the room-wide waiting list and be randomly seated when a seat that matches their preference becomes available"

Does anyone (Colette) know if similar things are going to be implemented into the NJ market?

Thanks

Article found here
http://uk.pokernews.com/news/2015/10...ield-19256.htm
Yeah I saw this yesterday and posted as much in the thread about software problems, since many blame HUDs for software problems. I honestly didn't create a separate thread because there is no indication of if or when PartyPoker will implement these changes for the US micro-sites.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:13 PM   #11
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by wildman75 View Post
I could care less if there are huds or not. but its only going to hurt your sites bottom line if you ban them and your competitors allow them. Regs will just play fewer tables on your site and more on Stars if they allow them.
I have to say, all in all I agree completely with this thinking. Seems short sided to throw the baby out with the bath water. But that's just my opinion.

On a related note, it's also interesting all the sites are going for the same low hanging fruit here. With Sky and Unibet already disallowing HUDs, PartyPoker kind of downgrades itself as a site for serious players by doing the same. So they are just giving away the market for grinders then? I guess we will see how it plays out.
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:51 AM   #12
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

i've said this before, and will say it again:

i dont' care what you do with huds, ban them, don't ban them, it doens't matter. but what you can NOT take away is written hand histories. Written hand histories give players a safeguard to protect themselves in the games they are playing. They give players the capability to sort through thousands of hands and pick out things that look suspicious. Whether it be cheating or botting, it is literally impossible to do this without written hand histories.

The ultimate bet cheating scandal would have NEVER been uncovered if players did not have written hand histories. More recently bot rings have been discovered and brought to site's attention (partypoker's, in fact) because players dug through databases and identified bot accounts.

Botting is a HUGE problem on international partypoker and it's only going to get much much worse now that players will not be able to help identify bots.

Bots are easily the biggest threat to the longevity of poker, and taking away written hand histories will vastly decrease the rate at which these bots are discovered and stopped.

I hope everyone reading this can understand that playing against the best human in the world who uses a hud will be nothing compared to playing against a bot who plays perfect gto poker that literally cannot be beat because no counter strategy exists.

also, let's be real, getting rid of written hand histories will NOT get rid of huds. bovada doens't supply written hand histories and huds still work there.

Getting rid of written hand histories is not a solution. It will NOT protect players, it will have the complete opposite effect and do much more harm than good.
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Old 10-03-2015, 08:35 AM   #13
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

Completely agree with gags.

the Stars party is almost starting and no one will have to play on this ****ty site again
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Old 10-03-2015, 12:17 PM   #14
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by higher visions View Post
Im not sure you know what a HUD even does.....
lol

its basically a huge cheat sheet of stats, betting patterns/ tendencies/habits, etc etc. things your average person couldnt keep track of/recognize themselves.

its one thing when u sit at a table and pick up on peoples tendencies on your own its another when u need a software aid to tell you every little thing about that person
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Old 10-03-2015, 03:34 PM   #15
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post
i've said this before, and will say it again:

i dont' care what you do with huds, ban them, don't ban them, it doens't matter. but what you can NOT take away is written hand histories. Written hand histories give players a safeguard to protect themselves in the games they are playing. They give players the capability to sort through thousands of hands and pick out things that look suspicious. Whether it be cheating or botting, it is literally impossible to do this without written hand histories.

The ultimate bet cheating scandal would have NEVER been uncovered if players did not have written hand histories. More recently bot rings have been discovered and brought to site's attention (partypoker's, in fact) because players dug through databases and identified bot accounts.

Botting is a HUGE problem on international partypoker and it's only going to get much much worse now that players will not be able to help identify bots.

Bots are easily the biggest threat to the longevity of poker, and taking away written hand histories will vastly decrease the rate at which these bots are discovered and stopped.

I hope everyone reading this can understand that playing against the best human in the world who uses a hud will be nothing compared to playing against a bot who plays perfect gto poker that literally cannot be beat because no counter strategy exists.

also, let's be real, getting rid of written hand histories will NOT get rid of huds. bovada doens't supply written hand histories and huds still work there.

Getting rid of written hand histories is not a solution. It will NOT protect players, it will have the complete opposite effect and do much more harm than good.
But Bovada is anonymous, no?
Just a seat number.
What good is a HUD for a single game where you'll never know if you've encountered the same player again?
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Old 10-04-2015, 02:36 AM   #16
Gags30
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by poorme View Post
lol

its basically a huge cheat sheet of stats, betting patterns/ tendencies/habits, etc etc. things your average person couldnt keep track of/recognize themselves.

its one thing when u sit at a table and pick up on peoples tendencies on your own its another when u need a software aid to tell you every little thing about that person
i really don't want to turn this into a HUD debate, because there are much more important things at stake, such as player protection against collusion and botting, however you really should do some more research on exactly what huds are how they work before making accusations such as they are "cheat sheets".

fwiw, if you gave a losing player the most extensive HUD that exists with a massive database of millions of hands, he would still be a losing player. hardly a 'cheat sheet' if you ask me
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Old 10-04-2015, 02:39 AM   #17
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by mystery_man View Post
But Bovada is anonymous, no?
Just a seat number.
What good is a HUD for a single game where you'll never know if you've encountered the same player again?
bovada is indeed anonymous, but the hud works for the session while you're sitting at hte table. can still can get samples on players and regs can even build databases against other regs that you play every day in cash by grouping similar stats, etc.


party.com is not going anonymous, so it won't be a far stretch at all for huds to still be extremely prevalent. This is why their 'solution' to get rid of huds is so horrible. It does nothing to get rid of huds, and just takes away player protection of having written hand histories.
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Old 10-04-2015, 03:54 PM   #18
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

The mooks that don't understand a HUD, will not fare much better without one.
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Old 10-04-2015, 03:59 PM   #19
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by Gags30 View Post
i really don't want to turn this into a HUD debate, because there are much more important things at stake, such as player protection against collusion and botting, however you really should do some more research on exactly what huds are how they work before making accusations such as they are "cheat sheets".

fwiw, if you gave a losing player the most extensive HUD that exists with a massive database of millions of hands, he would still be a losing player. hardly a 'cheat sheet' if you ask me
I agree.

Going one step further, the opponent stats are only one piece of the HUD packages.

I think a more important part of the software is as a training tool. It's something you can use to analyze your own hands and results, and hopefully to plug leaks and get better.
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Old 10-04-2015, 11:47 PM   #20
Rays champs in 08
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

as one of the mass multi tablers i think that going to no HUDs is what is best for the game and am happy that they are moving this way in the future

but i do see gags point as i was banned for (chip dumping) when i was never involved wiht it but without hand histories of other hands where the player played hands similiar as he did vs me i might still be banned on party/borg

they will need to figure out a way to prevent cheating for sure but i do think going to no huds is a huge step in right direction for the longevity of the game here in NJ
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Old 10-05-2015, 12:27 AM   #21
Gags30
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rays champs in 08 View Post
as one of the mass multi tablers i think that going to no HUDs is what is best for the game and am happy that they are moving this way in the future

but i do see gags point as i was banned for (chip dumping) when i was never involved wiht it but without hand histories of other hands where the player played hands similiar as he did vs me i might still be banned on party/borg

they will need to figure out a way to prevent cheating for sure but i do think going to no huds is a huge step in right direction for the longevity of the game here in NJ
taht's the issue...sites have proven time and time again that they are not capable of monitoring 100% of games by themselves, they need the player's assistance to bring matters to light,a s well as catch people cheating.

without written hand histories cheaters and botters will run rampant
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Old 10-05-2015, 05:28 PM   #22
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rays champs in 08 View Post
as one of the mass multi tablers i think that going to no HUDs is what is best for the game and am happy that they are moving this way in the future

but i do see gags point as i was banned for (chip dumping) when i was never involved wiht it but without hand histories of other hands where the player played hands similiar as he did vs me i might still be banned on party/borg

they will need to figure out a way to prevent cheating for sure but i do think going to no huds is a huge step in right direction for the longevity of the game here in NJ
I think we can all agree that written hand histories should not be restricted. Of course, the reason they put that restriction in was to deal with people selling huge hand history databases. Is there really any way to prevent that?

The real truth is, even though I don't use a HUD on Party because of the software issues, I do not think that banning HUDs helps longevity at all. These sites are the definition of "reg infested." Even the bad players are regs. You don't think the people using HUDs don't already have a huge database on most opponents?

So who does it hurt? The new players who want to use HUDs as a learning tool. Or the mid-level players trying to improve. How does hurting those two groups of players help longevity?
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:05 PM   #23
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

Banning HUDs isn't the solution to helping these sites long term. If/when they decide to get rid of HUDs all the regs have to do is...put exactly what was on their HUD display into the note section of every player they have hands on.

If you ban HUDs...the good regs just win more, the bad regs win less, the fish still lose, just a little bit slower. That's poker folks..that's how it is supposed to work.

These sites should focus on how to get more players on to their sites rather than fix these "problems" that don't really exist.

Spend money on getting better software, marketing, fixing the geolocation problems, fixing the issues with depositing, lobbying for other states to get legalized online gambling so they can group their markets together. That seems to be a better strategy than getting rid of HUDs to me.
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Old 10-05-2015, 10:25 PM   #24
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by wildman75 View Post
Banning HUDs isn't the solution to helping these sites long term. If/when they decide to get rid of HUDs all the regs have to do is...put exactly what was on their HUD display into the note section of every player they have hands on.

If you ban HUDs...the good regs just win more, the bad regs win less, the fish still lose, just a little bit slower. That's poker folks..that's how it is supposed to work.

These sites should focus on how to get more players on to their sites rather than fix these "problems" that don't really exist.

Spend money on getting better software, marketing, fixing the geolocation problems, fixing the issues with depositing, lobbying for other states to get legalized online gambling so they can group their markets together. That seems to be a better strategy than getting rid of HUDs to me.
Agree 100%.

The HUD issue seems like a scapegoat more than anything else.

Stars has had the top market share in the world forever, and despite all the complaints about the games being tough, there are always plenty of fish there. Because they are always gaining new players. HUDs don't seem to be killing their games.
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:54 AM   #25
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Re: Party Bans HUDS

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Originally Posted by ghost_of_m View Post
Stars has had the top market share in the world forever, and despite all the complaints about the games being tough, there are always plenty of fish there. Because they are always gaining new players. HUDs don't seem to be killing their games.
They actually are? Stars is currently taking steps to limit / eliminate the use of in depth Huds and note caddy
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