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*** Ultimate Poker General Discussion Thread *** See first post for FAQ link! *** Ultimate Poker General Discussion Thread *** See first post for FAQ link!

05-04-2013 , 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by 3ozBacardi
Is that right?


I’m a cynic…
Whew, lot of questions. I'll do my best.


Someone asked earlier (prior to page 50) why UP went with Iovation for security. Since we all (should) know that Greg Pierson’s was (co)founder of Ultimate Bet and Iovation, the company that allowed (if not created) ‘god-mode’ supersusers to cheat from within UB, why should we trust any Pokersite associated with or using Iovation?
We use iovation to look up a given player's "fraud score". They don't have any access to our hands, our database, our office, our software or sensitive information. The relationship is distant at best.


Who are ‘they’? What happens after this ‘field trail’? What sort of poking and proding ‘metaphorically speaking’ can we expect from the Nevada Gaming Control Board (GCB) after the field trial? And just what sort of features do you plan to add later, when the GCB isn’t looking?
"They" are the Nevada Gaming Control Board. They have an entire division (Audit: who have requirements for reports and process review. We both provide them with reports in various formats (such as a "table session" report that has line items for every single bet/fold/raise and the pots awarded, bets returned, rake taken for as long as that table exists - it's several hundred pages) and access to our systems to review those reports directly.

After the field trial, we have the permission of the GCB to update our software. This essentially means no new versions until the end of field trial, unless something critical comes up (at which point field trial would start over). Field trial can be reset for a variety of reasons, but essentially it's up to GCB to determine if you're successful in your field trial.

We can't add anything when the GCB "isn't looking". Every piece of our software is either stamped as core or non-core. Core components are things like the shuffle, actions the buttons take when clicked, how the pots are awarded and so on. Non-core components are things like the text blurb in the deposit window or the selection of avatars. Core components MUST be approved by our third party certification company, GLI ( - warning, autoplaying sound). Once GLI approves it, they write a report and sends it to GCB for their approval. What this means is, in practice, new features need to be vetted a long time in advance. Once we finish our internal planning, developing and testing, we can't just roll it out - we have to send the code to GLI, then wait for GCB approval. This means we need to plan ahead, and we're currently already working on v2 and v3.

Who chooses and pays the independent reviewer? Other Pokersites have assured us our money is safe and the game is fair. How is UP different? How do we know we can trust the reviewer and where and how often will we see the review/audit results?
We select them and pay them. There's only two in Nevada (that I know of - so don't quote me on this, and if a rep from another certification lab is here, please speak up): GLI and BMM. Both have employees who have previously worked in the GCB directly. I don't actually know if the audit results are public, but you can try contacting GLI directly to ask.

Who (exactly) owns UP? I can find out on my own with a little more effort, but I’d prefer to hear it from the horse’s mouth ‘metaphorically speaking’ such that everyone here has all the names and can (should) do their own homework.
We're majority owned by Station Casinos, who is owned by the same people who own the UFC (the Fertitta family). Tom Breitling, our chairperson, is easily google-able, but owned a travel company (later sold to Expedia) and the Golden Nugget Casino. Tobin Prior (our CEO) used to run the Atlantis in the Bahamas. Basically, we consider the Station/UFC/UP companies to be a part of the same extended family.

Didn’t Station Casinos just get out of Chapter 11 restructuring in 2011 after stiffing its creditors in or before 2009? And didn’t they effectively stiff more creditors to regain private control in the end through the chapter 11 restructuring?
I'm honestly uneducated on Station Casinos history, sorry. I just work here.

I hope I was able to answer some of your questions, but again, just to make it clear, I'm involved in the poker product side of things for Ultimate Poker. Let me know if I can help you find the answers you're looking for, or the people who know them.
05-04-2013 , 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by renodoc
This, obviously.
Heya Reno, good to see you popping up in this thread, even if you're wrong! Go Canucks!
05-04-2013 , 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by udyr
Figured this out. It's a timing issue. You have to wait approximately 3 minutes for the HH to be accessible.

Any chance of this getting fixed soon Dax?
The technical reason this happens is so that we don't have our game servers slowed down by requests to look up hands. I think 3 minutes is a little bit long, I'll see if we can't get that sped up a bit. We really want to be careful as we grow in this first couple of weeks, though, and little secret.. much better hand histories are coming soon.
05-04-2013 , 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by udyr
Just looked at a HH where I and 1 other player went to showdown. River was check, check. HH shows my cards, but not his. He was in position and my hand was good.

First time I've seen this in online poker. Was this by design? Or is it a mistake? If by design, is it going to be changed in the future? Does NGC mandate this?

So many questions now.
Hm, that's interesting. I'll look into this. I *believe* that if you go to showdown, you should be able to see all hands [that made it to showdown with you]. I'll find out if that's not the case.
05-04-2013 , 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by zingbust1
Well, I guess I'm one of the lucky ones because I can get on and got verified and I can play. My question is, do you allow a 2nd member of the same household to start their own account and play and if so, can they both use the same phone?
One phone per customer, unfortunately.
05-04-2013 , 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by mclovin69
Im with you, i have been playing with no probs since i joined 2 days ago. I just requested my first w/d and ill post how that went. Sorry for the ppl that are having probs im sure they will get them fixed asap, they have a lot riding on this 30 day trial.
Glad to hear that it's smooth sailing for you.

We hope to have everyone in the same boat.

So we have oceans of players.

Not just a drop in the bucket.

(Ok, ok, I'll stop).
05-04-2013 , 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by tredigs
I live in South Lake Tahoe and our internet does run through Nevada, but despite that I live on the Cali side of the border by about a mile and it looks like (ironically) I'll have to play at the casino if I want online action. Regardless, a great step in the right direction.

I must say I am curious how taxes will be dealt with in this newly regulated arena.
Keep in mind that casino on the border is too close to the border for us to allow play. You'll need to be about 1.5km (a little less than a mile) inside of Nevada for us to approve you.
05-04-2013 , 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by urDONEson79
i'm trying to get set up with the site. i have a mac computer and have to purchase windows 7. has anyone did this yet? how is it? they say they'll pay back the $200 after we paid that much rake but how would we as players know when that happens? is there a rake tracker on the site? thx
Just try to keep a rough estimate on your own - we can always look it up in your account. If you think you've gotten there, send us a message and we can look up how much rake you've paid.
05-04-2013 , 07:18 PM
is there 100bb games yet?
Originally Posted by ZeroPointMachine
No. But you won't miss them. You have not seen tables like these before.
05-04-2013 , 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by parisron
Whoops, I just noticed something bad about the rake. Looks like they are taking rake without a flop!. In addition to that it appears that there is a glitch or its being hidden.

In .25/50 blind NL someone raises and all fold it shows Player X wins 1.25 which is how much the pot would be without a rake(SB, BB, and the .50 from player that raised) however very quickly you see .05 in the rake area, so it should say Player X wins 1.20.

Obviously the numbers are much higher on bigger games, taking preflop rake is horrible and I'm guessing and others will not but we will have to wait and see.
Just a graphical glitch. The rake doesn't actually get taken, it just shows what the rake WOULD be if the flop were seen at that point, but you'll notice that the person still wins the full amount.

"No flop, no drop" is our rule.
05-04-2013 , 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by StrikeR300
Went to Target & bought the $15 Alcatel 510a Phone, & a $15 phone card. Had to go to the AT&T corporate store today to get a new Sim card (one in the box wasn't recognized by the phone), but now all is working fine. Major cross-streets I live by: Desert Inn & Hollywood Blvd (the far East) if that helps anyone.
Hey, thanks for this. Glad to hear it.
05-04-2013 , 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by IseeWHTuDID
Ok here is my issue, I have tried emailing support am getting no where. I am a Verizon customer so I bought a Samsung prepaid phone from Walmart. It allowed me to get verified and I thought I was good to go.

My issue now is that after playing for roughly half an hour or so I will start getting disconnects. And then the strangest part is the entire poker client will just crash and suddenly disappear. Usually right in the middle of a hand.

Anyone having a similar issue, what might the problem be? I have a VERY new computer, I am on the East side of LV, Cox high speed internet, T-mobile phone. Why am I disconnecting?
I'm not sure why this is. We haven't been able to reproduce it, but at least a couple people have reported it. Is there any chance you have any antivirus software that could automatically kill programs? I know it's a long stretch and the answer is probably "no", but this is not a good experience for anyone, so we want to try to figure out who is experiencing it and why.
05-04-2013 , 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by PokerXanadu
The "Can I get a "drop" phone?" spoiler in the latest 1.4 FAQ doesn't work (nothing shows when I click spoiler button).
Thanks.. Will update shortly.
05-04-2013 , 07:23 PM
Not a fan of auto post being auto clicked when you sit down. Some nits prefer to come behind button rather than UTG
05-04-2013 , 07:25 PM
Dax can you please tell me what I need to do on my end to fix this if possible.

Originally Posted by parisron View Post
So I have been using my new laptop windows 8 with no real problems other than already stated, its dual core and cards dealt around 4 seconds pre flop.

Set up my desktop windows 7 I havnt used in awhile quad core and pre flop deal is 1 second, sweet, but I can't pull up cashier for some reason and the chat box that shows the cards on flop just has X's. What could the problem be?

I just updated windows and still has problem.
Downloaded new IE10 for win 7 64 bit, updated Java. Restarted. Still same issue. I can never download flash on this computer maybe because 64 bit don't know if that's the problem.
05-04-2013 , 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by par4mindy
so, i'm a Verizon customer forever. I am thinking of switching now. Can anyone tell me who has the 2nd best coverage here in Vegas, lol. Verizon by far has the best. How is T-Mobile?
T-Mobile is the fastest LBS lookup provider, so it's currently our recommended provider. Before you switch, you might want to try a burner phone (on T-Mobile) at your house to ensure that everything works smoothly before you bust out of "contract prison".

Also, it wouldn't hurt to let them know you're leaving them because they wouldn't enable LBS for playing on Ultimate Poker. We appreciate calls to them pressuring them.
05-04-2013 , 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by MSchu18
I had heard... but have not yet tried... that during withdraw, you are going to need that phone line so they can text you a withdraw PIN as another layer of security if you plan on making that withdraw in person.

as I said, I have not tried to withdraw so I can not say for sure... but this is what the cashier told me as I deposited.
This is right. You'll need your cell phone to withdraw.
05-04-2013 , 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by idun215
who wants to guess how many people will register and play sunday 10k?
I got the over on 199.5. (Maximum entrants is 200).

Seriously, I think it's going to fill up. There's 37 registered already, and we think something like 90% of the registrations are going to be day-of.
05-04-2013 , 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by timormson
because you only came here to stir up trouble. you just want to argue with every other poster who WANTS to play on this site. and argue about whos fault black Friday really was.. you didn't come to ask questions. you came to vent.
the one guy said just trust them and try it out and you said REALLY just trust them.. that's what he said and others too so I replied to you.
'you DONT Trust them. so don't play. its a free country. dax isn't going to change your mind no matter what he says. he will say they know of the problems and are working to fix them..THAT WONT BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU. so my reply is simple. don't play. you are totally pissed at someone or some group and you are just here to vent and rant and not to get questions answered
Umm...I only ever asked Dax a few questions. Not sure who you are or why you are behaving so defensively. Is there some reason you think my asking a few questions prevents anyone else from doing as they like?

I hope you can see that your overreaction looks quite suspicious, as if I'm threatening some personal interest. Is your name Greg Pierson? Are you affiliated with UP in any way?

I don't intend to play UP until and unless my homework proves them to be trustworthy with my bank and credit card info., not to mention any money I may have on account with them. I've found quite a list of reasons to distrust them but not one reason to trust them, especially since their own website obfuscates who actually owns UP and Station Casinos.
05-04-2013 , 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by rjljr2
Dax tweeted that they increased the timeout on LBS. However, it still doesnt it work for me. Locaid demo locates both of my phones (One at&t, the other t-mobile) within 5 seconds (one in 1 second) and within 300m. Yet the UP software still fails to verify location. I hope someone from UP pays attention to the posts above from ZeroPointMachine, as that seems to indicate some other sort of problem might be involved.
Anyway, back to Brick & Mortar
We absolutely are. I actually talked to ZPM on the phone the other day. Kudos to him to helping us out.
05-04-2013 , 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by TimTimSalabim
The locaid demo located my Verizon phone accurately and within 5 seconds, so I'm not sure why they're claiming that it doesn't support that carrier. I think there's some other sort of issue too.
Verizon has approved loc-aid to use LBS (location based services).

Verizon has not approved Ultimate Poker to use LBS.
05-04-2013 , 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by StrikeR300
I believe Bovada bought it's software from Cyberarts, & UP bought CyberArts in 2011.

Bout 1/2 Tree Fiddy
No relationship between Bovada and CyberArts.
05-04-2013 , 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by ZeroPointMachine
More Log-in Experiments:

I am located at Sahara and Sloan, 1.5 mile east of Sahara and Nellis. But my IP address shows up over 10 miles away in Henderson. I left my phone at home and took another road trip with just my laptop.

McDonald's at Charleston and Sloan, 1.4 miles north. The wifi IP address shows up at Bonanza and Eastern(about 5 mile away), UP Log-in Verified Location

Starbucks in same shopping center. Wifi IP address locates the same. UP Log-in Verified Location

Starbucks at Sahara and Nellis, The wifi IP address shows up as generic USA in the middle of Kansas, UP Log-in Failed To Verify NV Location

McDonalds at Vegas Valley and Nellis(2 miles from home), The wifi IP address shows up as generic USA in the middle of Kansas, UP Log-in Failed To Verify NV Location

The phone never moved from my house! The cell towers certainly did not move! The only thing that changed was the IP address I was attempting to log in from.

I am sure that the UP people think I am crazy at this point(they may be right). Anybody else, with a non Verizon phone, who is having problems(and even people who are not) go to:

and prove me wrong.

Later today I am going to have someone take my phone to Henderson while I attempt to log in from home. I'll report back.
I am pretty sure the primary source of location is going to be your phone (the Nevada IPs are all pretty solidly within Nevada). It seems like your phone is taking pretty close to the cusp of timeout for LBS. Try logging in 5-10 times and seeing if you're getting 100% failures or successes - my guess is that you aren't.

Again, I really appreciate that work you're doing! Don't go too out of your way for us though, or we're going to have to start paying you.
05-04-2013 , 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by StrikeR300
For science, I'm at DI & Hollywood using Cox: Shows me at E. Washington & Nellis, which is ~5mi north.
All Las Vegas IP checking should be fine, but this anecdotal data point is exactly the reason Nevada didn't want to use IP geolocation alone - it's just wildly inaccurate. Imagine if we had to make the Nevada buffer zone 25-50 miles to ensure 0% California/Utah/etc gamblers.
05-04-2013 , 07:47 PM
More connection experiments:

Okay, I had my Dad sit in front of my computer so that I could take my phone to Henderson while he tried to log on from computer. I was in the Fiesta Henderson with my phone. UP login failed.......arrrg

The IP address location seems to be a red hearing but there is still something wrong involving the internet connections.

I used my laptop to go on the Fiesta Henderson wifi, UP login failed, multiple times. This astounded me. Dax, can you confirm anybody playing on Fiesta Henderson's wifi network?

I was so confused that on the way home I decided to double check my earlier results. I stopped at the McDonald's at Vegas Valley and Nellis. Where I had failed previously. UP Verification failed. I was about to go to my next stop but then noticed that there was a wifi connection for the Popeye's Chicken right next door. I decided to give it a shot. UP Verification: SUCCESS!!

My car did not move, my phone did not move, cell towers did not move, same computer. Two different wifi connections. One works and one does not! I repeated the test twice on both networks with the same results.

The Mcdonald's connection was faster in every way but would not connect. The Popeye's signal was fair at best but worked.

I don't know why. Anybody who can determine the difference between these two connections can solve this problem.