Well you're obviously making a point by lying about those ages and now revealing that to me now. Why so?

Rasta,

Huh?

I told you I'd answer them truthfully after you did what you said you were going to do, but that it was silly of you to use that to judge whose advice you should pay attention to or not. I then wrote some over-the-top stuff to illustrate my point. You didn't actually take that seriously, did you?

Anyway, so you saying you'd give my advice more value if the first set of answers is true vs the second set being true? OK, I was just kidding in my recent post, the first set of answers is the truth!

Come on, man, don't you see how silly you are being?

Duuuuuude. Of course I'd give your input more value if the first set of answers were true! How on earth could I not? I'm not saying I won't pay attention to you or not (as I correctly presumed you were indeed successful from a young age from the word go).

But look, lets say you're successful and amazing with women and rich and yadayadayada.

If that's the truth in both cases, then the first story is

1) Far more impressive
2) Something that I can relate to more closely

and above all:

3) Far more inspirational.

Finally, I'm sorry as I really don't want to go back to the whole 'prove myself right' thing, but can you please admit that you understand why you're not in a position to say things like 'no-one cares if you're a virgin' and why someone like me might have found that irritating and insensitive?

Put in an application for that journalist/reporter job that gf's flatmate told me about. Bit awkward because I don't think I'll get anywhere near it but its something I guess.

Lets see if I hear back from my LSE enquiry and my application for the content editor role for that betting site. Bet you anything I don't.

I've decided that if I don't get anywhere with anything by February 2016 I'll probably quit my job even if its into complete oblivion. I'll have saved up £5000 by then which should afford me the trip to Dignitas that such an outcome will probably merit.

On a happier note my parents are away this coming weekend. Which means I can have a poker/FIFA/alcohol/weed/football-in-the-morning boys night with my mates. Got 10 people coming round so should be a sick one!

Ah simple pleasures...

I've been mostly dark for a bit but this thread has gotten a little weird.

virginity: 19
learned to drive: 12
bought car: 27

I learned to drive early because I spent every summer on a farm, so I was obliged to drive a tractor or a jeep or a 4x4 or dirt bike from way back. I had use of a car courtesy of my parents while I was in graduate school, but immediately bought one after I started permanent work.

I can understand why relative newbies to this forum don't fully understand that which is the El D. I listen to him because it's useful to do so. He isn't always right, but he calls bull**** on that which he sees as bull****, and I don't get my feelings hurt by his directness.

Rasta, quality writing is all about work and thought. There's certainly some raw talent to it, but most of it is effort and focus. Ever think about that point?

Yeesh, you guys really are like a cult.

Look, my feelings aren't hurt by his directness.

My belief that he's got as much to offer as other people seem to think is however, shaken by the fact that he'll evidently speak confidently on subjects about which he's clueless.

I feel like if he were sincerely trying to help me or give good advice, he'd say something like "OK, I learned to drive and lost my virginity at a fairly socially-acceptable age, so I don't know what its like for you, however, wrt ABCD on your CV for job application XYZ which is in a field I'm very familiar with from my time working at EFG, you sound like a complete idiot and need to change that."

That would be directness but with honesty which not only would I have no problem with, but would thoroughly appreciate.

The problem is purely practical.

I want good advice, you say you listen to El D because its useful, but its difficult to differentiate between when he's giving this fantastic, knowledgeable advice that this community of obviously intelligent people praises, and when he's actually talking about something about which he knows less than nothing, as he speaks so confidently about both and never once admits to a gap in his knowledge.

This latest incident is a bit like someone complaining about the fact that they suffer from epilepsy and asking people if anyone else has found it to be a major issue in their life in terms of chasing success and being met with:

"Nah don't have epilepsy"
"No me neither"
"Not me"
"Nope"
"Erm...nah not me"

"Oh I do! And I'm really successful and have overcome it completely in terms of making it to success"

"Whoa really? That's hugely inspirational!"

"LOL JK I don't suffer from epilepsy"

"...Oh..."

"LOL come on you didn't seriously believe that did you? Epilepsy doesn't matter. What does it matter if I had epilepsy anyway?!"

"...yeah...cool. Cheers fella"

So El D, we've got Stoke City away next weekend. Reckon we should stick with Pellè up front or change the formation to 4-4-2 and start with Long and Mané?

Slightly off the subject but I'd very much like to meet you all in real life. Give me a shout if any of you are in London some time.

I haven't followed the entire debate, but what I can say is that I haven't gone through life defining myself by when I lost my virginity or learned to drive -- and I'm at least fairly confident that the same would be true if my answers were 30 and 30 rather than 19 and 12.

And yes, OOT is a bit cultish. But many of us have gotten to know one another over the years, so that's no real surprise.

Rasta, I'm not sure why you think El D's advice is worth debating. It seems pretty straightforward and uncontroversial. I haven't been taking notes, but isn't he basically saying something like:

• Do things because you want to do them, not because you think other people think you should do them.
• If you don't like what you're doing with your life, try some other things.
• If you like them, great. If not, not big deal.
• Trying new things can mean getting out of your comfort zone. Sure that can be scarey, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I don't see how there's anything to argue against with that.

If doing new things with the attitude of "this is dumb, it's never going to work, and when it doesn't, I'll tell El D 'told you so'" helps combat any fear of failing, since it's his fault for making you try them even though you knew they wouldn't work, fair enough. But as long as you try, it's a win for you even if it doesn't go the way you'd like.

As frustrating as I find many of your posts, I think it's pretty positive that you're applying for jobs, looking at grad school, getting your license (not because you need a license but because it's good to do things rather than just think about doing them). I think you were pretty skeptical that online dating would be worthwhile, and that worked out okay. Don't get discouraged if you apply for a few jobs and don't hear anything back. Most things probably won't go as smoothly as finding a girlfriend did.

Rasta,

That's 100% false. If I don't know anything about a topic, I don't post about it. What you can't seem to get through your head is that people can be very knowledgeable about things they have never gone through themselves.

Go read the ytf thread. I've never been a fatass but have helped lots of fat friends lose weight.

Do you think every psychiatrist that treats schizophrenics has schizophrenia?

I asked you which pieces of advice you disagreed with. Still waiting on that.

I posted a hypothetical that had you all excited and inspired. You were excited to listen to my advice then, and now you don't think I know anything about it because I answered with some different numbers. That makes no sense at all, because you have no idea whether what I or anyone else claim here is true. All that matters are the results.

Fyi the person I described in my earlier scenario is a socially awkward engineer I helped with a lot of stuff.

You think your problems are unique and you're a special snowflake with more challenges than everyone else. That's where you're wrong. Your problems are super common and over the years I've helped many dorky young engineers with them.

Again, completely false. There's a wealth of stuff I know little about. I just don't give advice about that stuff.

Rasta,

Btw you've said I said something incorrect re: guys being a virgin.

Please quote what you wrote and what I responded, thx.

Dude. Way to straw-man. I am not defining myself by either of those things, I'm simply pointing out that a prejudice exists against both of them. El D has disagreed, so I've politely come back with evidence, not to prove him wrong for the sake of proving him wrong, but to try and help him understand my situation a little better.

Why? Well because apparently he wishes to help me and I may as well take him at his word. I'm just trying to show him as well as others that yes, there does indeed exist a negative prejudice against virgins, precisely the kind of which that is often represented and referred to in fiction, that's honestly, quite isolating, unpleasant and humiliating.

Don't tell the black man that racism doesn't exist. That's all I'm saying.

No, it makes perfect sense and you should quite clearly be able to see why. The hypothetical was an underdog/turn-around story, the kind of which I've quite honestly never even seen or heard about in real life. The reality is that you've likely been successful from the word go and have never really been struggling. That doesn't make what you have to say wrong or incorrect, but it does inspire me less. Its likely that you're a hard-working and naturally successful, popular person and that I'm simply incapable of achieving and attaining what you are.

Yeah s'fair enough. As I say, I'd love to meet some of you and for you to meet me.

I'm blatantly not arguing against any of those.

Yeah, silly as I know it is, the attitude helped me for the Sexodus thread. Whatever it takes right?

This is the thing, I've applied for plenty of jobs in the past. I've put tonnes of effort into applications and got no response or just found myself blown out by the competition when it comes to the interview/assessment day. I'm thinking of posting my answers to a task that was for a £24k job about 16 months ago. 10 questions. 150-word answers each in addition to the forms/CV/cover letter. I spent ages on that and didn't even get a reply. That's just one example.

I've made it through to assessment centres which are the what? Top 10-15%-odd of all applicants after the job? And what happens? You're surrounded by competition, all of whom I feel instantly inadequate to and justifiably so, because they're the creme de la creme. There's like 100 people applying for every graduate job in London these days.

Besides, I don't want to work in an office for the rest of my life, but there's realistically no choice.

On this point you're completely wrong. I've told people a million and one times that I don't think that my problems are unique for one second. I think its possible that I suffer from that which we call depression or bipolar or whatever, but I think my main problems are that I'm of ordinary intelligence, have average-to-poor A-levels, have a decent degree but in a crap subject, have a hopeless CV which I'm sceptical will give me any sort of future, am personally extremely fearful and anxious, have chronic insomnia which has meant that its been over a week since I got more than five hours of sleep and have no work ethic whatsoever.

The accusation that I 'think my problems are unique' is unfalsifiable.

Ok, that's all well and good.

However, it is completely reasonable to ask such a person to qualify their knowledge. Not in a "Well-what-the-hell-do-you-know-about-that-you-non-fatass!?" type way, but just in a "Oh?-that's-interesting-pardon-my-asking-but-could-you-let-me-know-how-you're-knowledgable-about-this-stuff-having-had-no-person-experience-of-it?"

Oh and...

None really, but my reaction is just to feel sick with depression and wish I were dead.

I react he same way to the "6 harsh truths article". I agree with every word completely but my internal reaction is to think "Oh, yeah, true, mmhmm...yeah he's right. Life is really hard and unpleasant. I'd rather be dead".

I've been fantasising about killing myself throughout my journey to work this morning. I just don't see a good ending to this.

The following are the questions required for an application for a graduate scheme in the charity sector that I'm applying for. It pays a puny £16,000 p/y but might well be a route into a fulfilling and rewarding career.

Why are you applying for xxxxx? What do you hope to gain from the programme? (300 words max)

Please provide an example of when you have deliberately sought out an opportunity to learn something new, what was the outcome and why was it valuable learning for you. (300 words max)

Please give us an example of a time you worked with other people to achieve something. What was the situation , what role did you play, and what was the outcome? (300 words max)

Tell us about a time when you have overcome an obstacle. Why was it challenging and what did you learn about yourself? (300 words max)

We are looking for candidates who are driven to make a difference by delivering excellent results for their organisation and the people who rely on that organisation. Please give us an example of when you demonstrated this quality. Outline the situation, your behaviour or action, and the end result. (300 words max)

Right; now this illustrates what I find sickeningly depressing. I'm about to spend a load of time really trying to fill those answers in to the best of my ability and I'll almost certainly hear nothing back.

Your belief that being a virgin is in any way comparable in to being black with respect to discrimination is pretty ridiculous.

Proof positive that you haven't got a clue.

Yo guys, (El D especially) Here's something I feel I ought to share as its probably a good illustration of 'that which I find most off-putting' with regard to working hard to improve my sitch.

This is the job that I applied for just after Xmas 2013 I was telling you about. Its a £24k starting salary and by all accounts, a fairly regular job. This isn't investment banking or rocket science, its a market research company. A good job but not something you'd think I ought to consider beyond my ability.

This task was, alongside providing a CV and cover letter, the first stage of the application prior to psychometric testing and then the telephone interview, after which you'd get to the assessment day.

I spent a lot of time on this and can hand-on-heart say that I really did put in 100% effort. To not even get so much as an email back was extremely disheartening, as I've honestly got no idea where I went wrong.

Questions in bold, answers in plain.

Please answer the following questions (max 150 words per question) and submit these to the Recruitment Co-ordinator within 2 weeks of receiving this form. If you are successful through this stage, you will be invited to the next stage which will be online verbal and numerical testing. The graduate scheme will be based in Oxford and begins the first week of September 2014

Why does market research interest you? What attracted you to the Nielsen Graduate Scheme?

My ambition to work within market research stems largely from my interest in economic and commercial current affairs, for which I not only have a strong curiosity but also the necessary critical thinking skills for constructive examination specifically within the FMCG sector in which Nielsen specialises.

I am a competitive, goal-driven individual who thrives on hitting targets in a fast-paced, client-focused environment, especially when given the opportunity to use innovative and conceptual thinking in order to solve problems. Market research is a career path in which I feel I can balance these professional strengths with my strong academics, excellent communication and interpersonal skills.

Of the many graduate opportunities available, Nielsen appealed to me in particular as offering a scheme which emphasised graduates being given real responsibility early on in their development, with a view to making an important and decisive contribution to a successful international company with a superb reputation.

Could you please give an example where you have gone above and beyond a “client’s” expectations to give a superior level of service? (this could be from work/social club or university experience)

During my time working in fundraising, one of our clients, 'Age UK', had briefed the company for a campaign of prospective cold-calling across a large sample of data. As with all calling campaigns, fundraisers were given scripts with which to engage supporters in order to raise awareness and meet financial targets.

Initially, the campaign started slowly despite the efforts of my colleagues, but I felt that our performance could be improved by making adjustments to the sales script. I took it upon myself to add my thoughts on how it could be developed but also canvassed other fundraisers for their opinions on where changes could be made.

After scheduling a meeting with the scriptwriters and the calling team we were able to make the necessary alterations, resulting in the performance of the campaign vastly improving, surpassing the target set by our client and yielding very successful results for Age UK.

You have been given several data heavy reports and asked by a client what this means to their product’s market position. How would you approach the project and analyse the data? What would you go back to the client with?

In order to provide accurate and useful information for the client, it would firstly be necessary to conduct a thorough investigation into the statistical data of any quantitative research conducted in order to identify trends and further provide an interpretation of what is suggested by the evidence gathered. In addition, any sociological issues investigated through qualitative research must be presented in context, alongside an explanation of why they were relevant and how they were judged to affect the client's market position.

The subsequent objective would be to use this information to compose a presentation of the results generated from the study, complete with an exhaustive summary of issues such as market size, demand and competition analysis. This would be accompanied by a clear explanation of how certain conclusions had been drawn from the research and what strategic adjustments or actions the client can take in order to improve their performance.

Could you please give me an example where you have managed a project/ situation with tight deadlines? How did you approach this?

When working as a business journalist in the cement industry, I was responsible for not only maintaining a daily online news service, but also for composing a weekly newsletter for the highest standard of industry professionals. In addition to these regular duties, I was occasionally also charged with managing additional projects including programmes for upcoming business conferences.

As the company was a small one and versatility was paramount, I took extra initiative to learn as much as I could about the industry early on, reading and researching previous conferences in order to gain a background on the industry whilst also attempting to gain advice from knowledgeable contacts via telephone or email, even outside of working hours.

Whilst the workload was heavier than usual, by having gained a thorough grasp of the industry early in my tenure, I was able to schedule my time as efficiently as possible, meeting deadlines comfortably.

Could you please give an example where you have worked in a difficult team? Why was it difficult, how did you resolve this and what did this experience teach you?

During my time at University, one of my modules included a group project which together with the regular end-of-semester exams, contributed heavily to my overall grade. Unfortunately, due to disagreements between certain individuals in the group over the topic and arguments that our group had decided to present, tasks allotted throughout the team were initially not being coordinated effectively and deadlines agreed between team members were not being met.

Although many in the group were understandably frustrated, I decided to organise more informal, face-to-face meetings prior to working with the team in the library in order to reach a compromise with regard to the subject of our presentation whilst also fostering a positive working atmosphere.

The experience was a valuable and constructive one with respect to establishing cooperation within a team and as a result the group project was completed and presented very successfully, with all involved achieving high grades.

What do you think is important to a consumer when they are looking to make a purchase and why?

Although much depends on the type of product being purchased, brand image and reputation are paramount in the FMCG and retail sectors in particular, due to the value that is often placed on reliability and familiarity. Consumer psychology often dictates favouritism towards a particular brand or even specific product that they are familiar with even when offered a wide range of choice within a similar price range. This is especially true in a fast-paced and busy world with greater numbers of the population in employment, having greater disposable income available, all whilst having far less time to investigate alternatives.

Furthermore, with the rise of the online marketplace and increase in targeted advertising, consumers are now accustomed to availability and convenience, meaning that it is often difficult for brands or products to avoid competition. As such, price can still be an important factor if the goods offered are of similar quality.

Over the next 12 months what do you think will be the key economic factors that affect Nielsen’s clients?

Much will depend on the sustainability of world economic growth, with forecasts suggesting that the global economy is on a slow path to recovery. Despite this, interest rates are likely to remain low across the developed West, increasing consumer spending power and yielding positive results for the retail and FMCG industries.

World socio-economic factors are also likely to heavily influence the outlook for the coming year. Rapid urbanisation and the development of a global middle-class has resulted in a consumer base with far greater access to a wider range of products, fuelling an increase in demand, particularly in the far East. This is likely to incentivise production and create competition, driving prices down and creating opportunities for specialised media and advertising in order for retailers to target their market as effectively as possible.

Adaptation to environmental legislation will also have potentially significant effects, although varying across different regions and industries.

If you could invite any three people to a dinner party, who would they be and why?

With my passion for politics and philosophy, my choice of guests would centre largely around those topics; I would choose Thomas Sowell, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Jon Stewart, selections which would no doubt lead to fascinating debate, an entertaining discussion and hopefully the chance for me to ask many questions.

Sowell, an American economist and social theorist, frequently writing from a conservative and libertarian position, has often provided a unique and sometimes unorthodox perspective on modern politics which would make for stimulating conversation. Jon Stewart, being of a leftist liberal persuasion would not only be a formidable opponent for Sowell but would bring wit, charm and comic relief, all vital qualities for a good dinner party. My final selection of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, one of the world's most remarkable and inspiring women, would be for her incredible story of escape from fundamentalist Somalia and her outside perspective on western civilisation.

If you were a brand, what would you be and why?

One of the companies I most admire and would like to emulate is Adidas, a company who have succeeded in developing their reputation for providing a superior quality of product compared to competitors of a similar size, such as Nike or Reebok, giving the brand a unique selling point and traditional identity built on trust, reliability and substance over a merely stylistic visual appeal.

Nevertheless, despite the simplicity of the famous 'three-stripe' logo, it remains instantly recognisable worldwide, allowing Adidas to build a visual brand identity without appearing either imposing or garish, and furthermore a presence and authority transcending almost every popular sport worldwide, stemming from this long-standing emphasis on quality sportswear.

Not only does having a quality brand image enable Adidas to maintain trust with consumers and secure repeat business, but also avoid competition on price where they can establish a niche based on providing a definitively superior product.

What would you identify as your biggest development areas?

Since graduating from university I have worked to develop my versatility in the workplace by improving my ability to make decisions quickly without sacrificing quality or accuracy.

Throughout my academic career I had grown accustomed to being able to plan and prepare work that was set which followed a predictable scholastic pattern with few unexpected challenges, a luxury not always afforded in a professional environment.

Having now had the benefit of experience in the intense and target-driven environments of sales and business journalism, I have endeavoured to embrace the challenges of multi-tasking and being able to respond efficiently to tasks set at short notice.

Whilst I nevertheless prefer to examine a situation from all angles and analyse all relevant factors in order to make well-informed decisions, I feel my growing experience is giving me the flexibility to do this without becoming overly reliant on my ability to prepare constructively.

Oh and before any of you ****s say that I'm not working hard or that I'm entitled or whatever, I'm literally plastering my failures right here for all to see.

And don't give me any of that 'entitled' bull**** either. Its not 'entitled' to be disappointed you still haven't managed to earn enough money to even so much as move out of your own house almost three years since university.

I really can't tell if you actually believe that being a virgin is anything like being black or whether you're just trolling, because it's such an incredibly stupid comparison I can't imagine how anyone could actually believe it. Then again you did go on about female privilege and superiority a lot so who knows maybe you actually do believe all this crap.

Did not read your application, but where you went wrong is by living in a city in which every regular entry-level job opportunity that's posted on the internet gets hundreds of applicants. Maybe you're in the 95th percentile for some of the jobs you're applying to and beat out 150 other candidates, but that won't even get you an interview.

So you can either label yourself a failure and give up, or prepare yourself for the fact that you may need to be applying to a few jobs a week for months just to get an interview.

Not an argument. Just a rant coupled with an attempt at shaming to stop questioning the established order of things.

Besides, I'm actually not comparing the two in terms of severity, as that would be meaningless. I am however, saying that a man who lost his virginity at 15 is in no place to say whether or not prejudice against late male virginity exists, just as a white man is in no place to say whether or not racism against black people exists.

Regardless of whether the two prejudices affect their victims with equal severity, the analogy holds up with regard to dismissing prejudice that you'll never experience.

Rasta,

Whether or not you feel that way, you do come off sounding entitled. How many jobs have you applied for? Given the numbers you've stated, it sounds like you'll need to apply to a ****load to have a decent chance at getting a job, yet that seems to make you depressed/angry/etc. Why?

More importantly, what have you done to distinguish yourself?

You say that you don't stack up well against the top candidates for these positions. If that's the case, why do you think you'd ever get one of these jobs? Either change the type of jobs you're applying to so you're a more viable candidate, or change and make yourself a more viable candidate for the jobs you are applying to.

What happened with the volunteer writing job?

What happened to the podcast?

What happened to building up some quality writing pieces on a blog?

Those are all the kinds of things you can point to when interviewing for jobs that can make you stand out from the pack.

What makes you seem entitled is how much you're whining about not getting a job after going through just the most basic of actions - filling out a few job applications.

If you want this, work your ass off and make it happen. If that's not something you're willing or able to do, find another path to go down.

Also, go see a mental health professional.

I can say with confidence that no one knows how old I was when I lost my virginity (at some point it probably came up with my wife but I doubt she remembers). I will grant that since I'm married people probably assume I've had sex with a woman at least once. But I got married at 36 so before that no one would have had any reason to think one way or another. How did people manage to pick you out to discriminate against? Did you wear a sign?

Actually, I think the essential difference is that the quality of being black is visible, where the quality of being a late male virgin is just the opposite -- and subject to your complete whim as to what you disclose about it or whether you disclose it at all. Being a privileged white male who lost my virginity at a reasonable age, I'm obviously no expert on either one -- but I've never been one to believe that one's own status means much if anything at all about the nature of one's opinions. That's a separate (and probably a politard) thought, though, so let's not get distracted by that point.

Because its a hideously unpleasant, depressing, miserable and humiliating existence.

Its horrible having to put a shedload of effort into something that you don't really want all that much, but nevertheless still have to fight tooth and nail for.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that it leaves me wondering whether or not life is worth living.

As I go to work I'm surrounded by other people off to their jobs. They're all earning enough money to live on their own and build their own lives. All I want is to be normal. To earn enough money to rent my own place. I've long accepted that I'm not going to own my house, get married or have children, I just want to be able to earn enough to rent a comfortable flat on the median wage.

And I have to put a tonne of effort into just achieving that. And I'm still failing.

Very fair point. Completely agree. I just feel ****ing unhappy.

But really? Does everyone have to do this just to get an average job? I just want a 9-5 that affords me independence. The reason I hate being called entitled is because I'm fundamentally not asking for much. Hell I'd settle for a below average lifestyle.

Besides, I don't have time to do the blog, the podcast and whatnot.

I'm applying for a job that pays £16-18k in the charity sector. They're asking for a 1500-word essay! And I have to what, work till 2 in the morning each night writing a blog and a podcast to try and support that as well?

I'm not saying that this isn't necessary or that you're wrong! I'm just saying its sickeningly unpleasant!

Yeah, this thread will be a story of me working my ass off and nothing happening. You watch.