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Old 05-15-2017, 07:15 PM   #1301
coon74
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Re: Cause and effect

Coffee itself has been considered an aphrodisiac in many cultures, though a convincing proof of this quality is yet to be provided.
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Old 05-15-2017, 08:45 PM   #1302
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Re: Cause and effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapka View Post
the main idea was like that:
You make a list of things that are important for your quality of life like: health, friends, money, job, SO, poker, collection of whiskeys........ whatever comes to your mind. And then rate everything in this list on the scale 1 to 10. And you have really to write this things down and then make a scale of 10 squares against every point and color so many of this squares how good this point is. Not just writing a number against every point!
I have:
Health XXXXX
Friends XXXXXXX
Family XX
Job ?????????
Romance XXXX
Hobby XXXXXXX
Money XXXXX

So I had already here two surprises: Not a single area in my life gets 10 points.
When looking at the 2/10 you gave for the quality of your family life, seem to remember wondering if leaving your friends and family and homeland behind to start a new life in a different culture with a different language maybe made it feel like you'd lost a connection to your homeland and home life? If so, could understand how you'd feel a powerful attraction to your new fiance from back home, with the added chance to start a family together and stuff ...

Your courtship is pretty different from what am used to seeing, so am not quite sure what to say - something that came to mind though was that, although getting to know each other and falling in love usually come before marriage in Western cultures, aren't those arranged marriages in India supposed to have a spectacular track record of success? So i guess who's to say that love has to come before marriage necessarily?

Guess in the next year, you'll be able to check out your compatibility - any traits that are super important to you in a mate Lapka? Guess you both share a comfort in getting engaged on the first date, so that's a start
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Old 05-15-2017, 10:34 PM   #1303
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Re: Cause and effect

Was just checking to see what makes arranged marriages so successful - guess maybe it's the same stuff everywhere?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ting-love.html

Quote:
‘In the West marriages are easy to get out of. But in arranged marriages, the commitment is very strong. They get married knowing they won’t leave, so when times are harder – if they face injury or trauma – they don’t run away. It brings them closer.’

Francine Kaye, relationship expert and author of The Divorce Doctor, added: ‘There is an awful lot to be said for arranged marriages. They are determined to make it work.

‘I have seen in arranged marriages in the Orthodox Jewish community that the parents very carefully look at compatibility – it is not left to chance. They do their homework on their characteristics, their values, morals and life goals.
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Old 05-15-2017, 10:48 PM   #1304
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Re: Cause and effect

Well I don't know what to say. Congratulations
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:50 AM   #1305
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Cause and effect

have just been reading another thread you have featured prominently in and just wanted to say you seem like a very kind and patient soul lapka. I couldn't have stayed interested as long as you have with a stranger who clearly doesn't wanna listen, and I admire your commitment. i really hope his new change holds for him.
haven't stopped by here before but looking forward to catching up on your thread
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:57 AM   #1306
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Cause and effect

hmmm, you may have thrown me a bum steer in the other thread.
first post in here and you're wishing cancer on someone..haha
if I wasn't intrigued before I sure am now
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Old 05-16-2017, 06:03 AM   #1307
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Re: Cause and effect

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Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
When you were feeling adventurous and, at the same time, anxious before the flight, I was thinking that you'd be more vulnerable than usual to falling in love because danger increases the sense of insecurity and one starts looking for someone giving the feeling of safety urgently, and often there's only one person who's close enough at that moment. That's why it's +EV to choose a scary or at least unusual place for the first date if you want to seduce someone.

I was feeling that you'd go out on some romantic dates on this trip that you had called 'private' but didn't expect your love life to go so far so fast, congrats!
You are really really good! I mean I am struggling myself with why it is so, why it feels right, why do I feel very comfortable with the guy (my usual state is "leave me alone"). You totally hit the point with this post. And it is magic in the sense I defined it in my OP. Really good. I am super impressed and that is also very interesting for me.

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Originally Posted by chopstick View Post
What was in that coffee?
Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
Coffee itself has been considered an aphrodisiac in many cultures, though a convincing proof of this quality is yet to be provided.
Yea the power of coffee. It was good one: not in this paper cups, but with sitting down in good cafe with great cake. I will make a TR with pictures when I am back.

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Originally Posted by TrustySam View Post
When looking at the 2/10 you gave for the quality of your family life, seem to remember wondering if leaving your friends and family and homeland behind to start a new life in a different culture with a different language maybe made it feel like you'd lost a connection to your homeland and home life? If so, could understand how you'd feel a powerful attraction to your new fiance from back home, with the added chance to start a family together and stuff ...

That one certainly played a role. This common childhood, same books, same cartoons, same jokes. It gives a feeling of closeness, that is very difficult to build, if you meet the person first time.



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Originally Posted by Rexx14 View Post
Well I don't know what to say. Congratulations
I hugely appreciate that. I know how crazy that sounds.... was (and still is ) surprising for myself. It is completely out of habit for me. But coon74 hits the point with his explanation. And I am now relaxed optimistic.... Whatever comes, for now it feels good. It feels actually really really really good, I didn't feel so for years and I missed this feeling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marke. View Post
hmmm, you may have thrown me a bum steer in the other thread.
first post in here and you're wishing cancer on someone..haha
if I wasn't intrigued before I sure am now


I have to reread myself my blog. I don't know ..... It is a place, where I am most myself. It is not always politically correct, what I am. But I think I went forward in basically all sides of my personality... Now there is just one person whom I want to have out of my life and I actually don't wish cancer on anyone and don't have really bad feelings not even toward my exes. It took time and important step was to admit that I had this feelings. Now I have a healthy emotional distance to this things
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Old 05-16-2017, 07:43 AM   #1308
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Re: Cause and effect

The name of your fiancé has reminded me of some Russian pop (which is usually even worse than the Western one).



'I love you, Dima,
Which is so necessary for me'

^ That sounds like you (I mean the pragmatic, mature kind of 'love', not a crazy infatuation).

The music video brings back one more memory about the 90s - the male actors came from an Odesa troupe which was producing the then-popular comic series 'Maski Show' that was a silent film series like The Benny Hill Show - and the video features some sound effects typical of the Maski Show.

Also:



(that particular song was released in 2014 but the peak of Tatiana Bulanova's popularity was in the 90s). Although it's likely that she was referring not to any Dima (Dmitry) but to her second husband Vladislav Radimov, an iconic figure in the St. Petersburg football, whom she divorced last December.
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:40 AM   #1309
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Re: Cause and effect

On the face of it, this is insanity. On the one hand, I'm delighted to hear that you are so happy and secure with your decision. But there is not enough information to form an opinion about this.

May I ask what he gave as the main reason he wants to marry you? I know that spur of the moment marriages can be successful, but I feel something of a sense of protection toward you. What's his thought?
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:52 AM   #1310
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Re: Cause and effect

Oh, thanks for rejoining the thread at this critical moment, granddam, I'm looking forward to hear your wisdom too

Speaking of wisdom, Alain de Botton has the supernatural ability to have a perfect timing - release a video on the exact topic that I contemplated on that particular day.

Yesterday, he made yet another video on the acceptability of compromise marriages:



See also:



as well as many other videos on the relationships playlist of The School of Life.
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:27 AM   #1311
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Re: Cause and effect

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Originally Posted by granddam View Post
What's his thought?
I guess that he had had a secret crush on OP since high school but had been afraid to confess it to her, until he became confident of being an attractive candidate for a marriage.

That said, it's also possible that the passion arose very recently. It's one of the biggest horrors of life that people tend to get attracted to someone who sounds familiar, not someone who sounds perfect. That's why it's quite common to fall in love with a friend of childhood or an ex, having met them after being apart for many years.

I think that literally all my turn-ons can be traced back* either to my mother or to my female friend of childhood. It's sickening that my unconscious mind can't get rid of those shadows of my past.

* Sometimes the chain of like events is long. E.g. why do I dig Rammstein and BFMV? That's because so did a girl who attracted me on one day in 2011 (that event was twice as painful because it was a birthday of my relative and I was unable to attend the festive dinner properly because I was unable to turn myself off for a second). Why did she attract me? That was because she inadvertently reminded me of a 1998 episode involving my childhood friend. Why did I bully that girl in 2011 instead of asking her out? I did it because I was subconsciously seeking revenge for a 2002 episode when a girl had bullied me.

Last edited by coon74; 05-16-2017 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:58 AM   #1312
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Re: Cause and effect

I'm just a bit lost. There's obviously a backstory here we haven't heard yet. Interwoven with the time of the proposal, there was an argument on Health and Fitness between lapka and some poster. Lapka, how are you processing all of this?
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Old 05-16-2017, 01:39 PM   #1313
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Re: Cause and effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by granddam View Post
On the face of it, this is insanity. On the one hand, I'm delighted to hear that you are so happy and secure with your decision. But there is not enough information to form an opinion about this.

May I ask what he gave as the main reason he wants to marry you? I know that spur of the moment marriages can be successful, but I feel something of a sense of protection toward you. What's his thought?
Granddam,

I am soooo glad to see you here.

I thought a LOT about exactly that and actually continue to think. I thought about money, german citizenship, basically every possible lower motive. I know it is not very romantic, just to think about it, but I am also not 20 any more, so I try to be realistic.

I can exclude money as a reason, because he is significantly better-off than me. We have also a bunch of common friends, I know where he works, so I am pretty confident that my estimation is correct.

His reasoning is that he feels so close and so home with me that he wants to have it forever. I know that it sounds cheesy. And do pay attention for any inconsistencies in the story/behavior.

.....It sounds not very romantic, but I do basically on ongoing basis check how it feels for me and if I see anything that doesn't add together. I am burned child in such things, so I am suspicious.

It is funny state: it feels good now. I am zero anxious but at the same time my guards with everything that is really important are not down.
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Old 05-16-2017, 01:53 PM   #1314
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Re: Cause and effect

As you're not very romantic anyway and he knows that, you can afford to interrogate him in detail before you give him an answer.

Edit: as for the German citizenship, it can't be irrelevant for a Russian guy. I used to have a Kazakh classmate at uni who was only moderately attractive, to put it mildly, but after she moved to Germany, she started looking like a much more interesting person (I wouldn't have imagined that she'd ever be able to settle there, as she wasn't brilliant academically.) However, she's married now so I don't care much about not being a close friend of hers.

Last edited by coon74; 05-16-2017 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:22 PM   #1315
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Re: Cause and effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
I guess that he had had a secret crush on OP since high school but had been afraid to confess it to her, until he became confident of being an attractive candidate for a marriage.

That said, it's also possible that the passion arose very recently. It's one of the biggest horrors of life that people tend to get attracted to someone who sounds familiar, not someone who sounds perfect. That's why it's quite common to fall in love with a friend of childhood or an ex, having met them after being apart for many years.

I think that literally all my turn-ons can be traced back* either to my mother or to my female friend of childhood. It's sickening that my unconscious mind can't get rid of those shadows of my past.

* Sometimes the chain of like events is long. E.g. why do I dig Rammstein and BFMV? That's because so did a girl who attracted me on one day in 2011 (that event was twice as painful because it was a birthday of my relative and I was unable to attend the festive dinner properly because I was unable to turn myself off for a second). Why did she attract me? That was because she inadvertently reminded me of a 1998 episode involving my childhood friend. Why did I bully that girl in 2011 instead of asking her out? I did it because I was subconsciously seeking revenge for a 2002 episode when a girl had bullied me.
Ooooo boy...... The thing is that you are so right. Ohhh boy oooo boy ooo boy! OOOOOO BOY.

I have to be soooooooo careful!
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:29 PM   #1316
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Re: Cause and effect

Romantic is in the eye of the beholder, IMO. And I don't think that marrying for financial security or as a way to ward off loneliness are always "lower" motives. I know people who have married with both these reasons being a major priority, and these marriages work. The couples were older, and, most importantly, they were all transparent in their motives.

I must admit, I have redefined the meaning of romantic more than once in my life. I've learned that a relationship can be successful when romance is not a primary priority, but honesty must be.

Please tell us more.
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Old 05-16-2017, 08:53 PM   #1317
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Re: Cause and effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapka View Post
I am drunk. 2 glasse of champain is enough for me. I have read here a really cool blog: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...l#post46373316

it made me realize that I am treating myself like my mom treats me and that is somehow really not good. I vow to be nicer to myself.

I have registered on russian facebook. I am born in former Sovijet Union, in a part that is now Kasachstan (Yes Borat is my country man ). So it was funny to see some people whom I haven't seen for more than 20 years. And it made me realize another thing. I am like having a double life. And it was always so, even when I was 11. Now I have this part: successfull fit cool overachiever.... bla bla bla and at the same time poker playing, depressive (OK definitely not depressive any more) unsecure, crazy, lazy girl with funny ideas. What I am more...... i have no idea.

But even when I was 11, I was on one side straight A student with BIG respect for authorities, dream of every parent. And on the other side I have really done not so straight things. i was boss of a certain teacher assistant club, I mean like a straight A student and so on, and I totally have used the power which comes with this position. So this testing the limits was somehow always in me. And the funny thing is, that I totally forgot this not so rule obeying part from my childhood. I had build in my head a reality of me being authority respecting, socially awkward nerd. And somehow that is definitely only part of the truth.
This was the first of your blog posts where you mentioned vk.com ('the Russian Facebook') - the social network where you were talking to Russian-speaking guys - and this childhood memory looks like a subject for extensive psychoanalysis

Was Dima in the club? If so, which powers over him did you apply? Was he standing out as special among his classmates? Were you abusing him more than anyone else in the group? Which side of you did he like more, in your impression - the tame one or the rebellious one, or maybe the fact that you had both? Would he like to act as the student in teacher/student sexual role play with you? Was he getting bad marks and maybe attracted to your intelligence that he was lacking? Were you helping him with homework? Or were you the two leaders of the class who were finding more pleasure in talking to each other than in talking to less smart classmates? Did he ever defend you from bullies?

There are many questions that you can ask yourself about your childhood. Ask those that come to mind first, as they're more likely to lead you to the recall of your and Dima's initial sensitising events. Maybe even question yourself under hypnosis, haha.

Last edited by coon74; 05-16-2017 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:01 PM   #1318
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Re: Cause and effect

to this sudden marriage proposal news my initial gut reaction is: LOL

(to say simply that i wish Lots Of Love for you in your life going forward! and that i am happy that you're happy! LOL YOLO)
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:15 PM   #1319
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Re: Cause and effect

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On bullying

LC in OOT brings some memories.....

I was bullied in the school. Few guys did beat me-up on a regular basis. I told my parents, my parents told me to deal with it. I dealt by skipping the school. At the time it seemed the only possibility to escape the beatings. For about a month I wasn't going to school and then it came out. A teacher came to our house to ask what is going on and why I am not in the school. For my parents that was BIG SHOCK. I mean school was always the priority and alone the idea that I was just skipping it was just outside of realm of possibility for them. After some talking and crying my mom finally understood how bad it was. My mom took me by the hand and went directly to the house of the leading bully. Then in presence of his parents she told him that if that happens one more time, she will as first beat me half dead (my parents never even slapped on my butt), because I let it happen and then kill him. It sounds wild and it was wild and highly emotional for everyone involved, but it totally did the trick. Beatings stopped.

Was I responsible in some way for this bullying? Definitely yes. I was socially inept (still am ) focused on school and did annoy the crap out of my bullies. Did I deserve beatings? Nope. No one does. Did my mom handle the situation well? Yepp. That was exactly the message that was understood. Some of you will start: She should talked to the teacher, talked to the parents, how did his parents react to my mom threatening to kill his son....... BS. That was exactly the right message. His parents were rather grateful. Teachers were themselves afraid of this guy. She did hit exactly the right tone and the right words. Differently to me my mom is and always was socially very skilled.
Quote:
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It is interesting how the communication works. My mom claims to this day that first time I mentioned any beatings was, when the teacher came to our house. I remember very well how I was explaining to her, why I have black eye again, months prior to that. Go figure..... And confirms again that there are different realities for every individual.

But I am so grateful to her that she got involved and stopped that, even if not when I first told about beatings. It was HUGE for my life that that had stopped.

And one of this bullies contacted me few years ago on russian facebook. I mean all the bullying is more than 20 years in the past and he tried the line " yea we went together to school. How is the life?"..... I got panic and started to think about if he has any possibility to find out where I live and what can I do about it. Such things don't disappear without trace.
What was Dima's role in that beating story? Was he with you when you were truant? Do you feel that the trip to Russia is like skipping your 'classes' (your German real job)? Do you think that the fact that you had recalled that story in detail, less than a month prior to the trip, was affecting your feelings at the Moscow coffee meetup with him?

Boy, I'm feeling like a detective right now, trying to investigate into your hidden reasons for feeling so unusually good when Dima is around

Last edited by coon74; 05-16-2017 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:42 PM   #1320
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Re: Cause and effect



I love the internet. It is funny how the truth emerges out of my not so coherent rambling.

Dima was not any more in the same school when bullying happened. His parents had to move and somehow then our ways separated for long time.
But he plays a big part in the other story, namely this teacher assistant club.

Dima was the second boss of this teacher assistant club. We basically run this thing together. We were both straight A students and at the same time did a lot of stuff that teachers wouldn't expect from us. Bohhhh, I am blushing, when I just think of it. And it was actually him, who reminded me of all the mischievous things, that I totally forgot and put somehow completely to the back of my mind.

When he reminded me of that I was first put aback.. I mean naaah, that's not me, I didn't steal class journal. But then it came back, and I did this things and it feels soooooooooo incredibly funny.

Now no one would care about this things, but then it was heavy misbehavior and this combination of me being very authority obedient girl and doing things completely against the norms, it gives me to this day funny feeling.

I am blushing and I am highly amused when I think of all this things. Reminiscing of this time was a big part of our initial conversation.

In other news I am thinking about my appearance now. When in Germany, I would say that I hit the upper 30 %, but in Russia I am definitely in the lower 30%. The number of exceptionally beautiful girls is HUUUUUUGE. And clearly I wonder about what advantage do I have on them..... *thinking*
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:53 PM   #1321
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Re: Cause and effect

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Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian View Post
to this sudden marriage proposal news my initial gut reaction is: LOL

(to say simply that i wish Lots Of Love for you in your life going forward! and that i am happy that you're happy! LOL YOLO)

My gut reaction is the same.

And the word love wasn't mentioned neither from him no from me. *thinking*
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:11 PM   #1322
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Re: Cause and effect

This stuff: common roots with this teacher assistant club and so.... It plays a role ..... It plays big role. I am now trying to imagine the story without this stuff, and it just wouldn't work. If I would have met completely the same dude, but without this common memories, just no way it would ever work.


*thinking*
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:17 PM   #1323
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Re: Cause and effect

Quote:
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The number of exceptionally beautiful girls is HUUUUUUGE. And clearly I wonder about what advantage do I have on them..... *thinking*
I think the reason is what I mentioned earlier - familiarity.

My childhood story is similar to yours in that I and my friend (who happened to be a girl) were the two straight-A students in the class. We were finding it hard to stop chatting, and our convos were making noise in class. People were wondering why I wasn't making friends with any other girl at the school*, as that girl was far from the most beautiful. But she was smart, or at least, she was getting massive home education - her granny was a teacher too.

Well, that girl inadvertently shaped the majority of my sexuality roadmap even though we rejected each other sexually right after we both switched schools and our parents would no longer put effort into maintaining our relationship that had come to a logical end anyway.

Ironically, she was the only one to whom I've ever proposed marriage*, but of course we were too young and that was more like a joke and she declined, especially because she was sexually mature while I wasn't and she had started dreaming of sex with elder boys (or, as my mother puts it, cheating on me with elder boys, though I didn't mind the 'cheating'). At that point, I was simply unable to imagine how I could ever marry anyone else - she was more important than anyone in my life besides my relatives, and I have Asperger traits so I hadn't made friends besides her.

So my educated guess is that you shaped Dima's sexuality in the years of its maturation, as you were one of the most important figures in his life at that point, his partner in crime, and you became a forbidden fruit for him because you parted before his prepubertal sexual dreams (where you most likely were the protagonist) could come true.

* Edit: my parents had actually tried to arrange a fiancée for me (a daughter of my father's colleague) when I was 12, and even to make my female friend jealous and disrupt our relationship. That 'fiancée' was cute and smart and, ironically, more in line with my later aesthetic taste, but I've never fancied to be friends with her, other than playing cards (rummy) at a party (which I also did with my female school friend on a separate occasion, and which was actually the most intimate activity that I've ever had ), and that 'engagement' fell apart when the fathers of us both died.

Last edited by coon74; 05-17-2017 at 01:35 PM. Reason: insignificant corrections
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:53 PM   #1324
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Re: Cause and effect

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Ironically, she was the only one to whom I've ever proposed marriage
To clarify - I've never felt attracted to her in any way other than friendship. So that marriage would be a queerplatonic partnership (which can be formed not only by aromantic people but by romantic ones too).

Speaking of, you might find this queerplatonic relationship request form useful for defining the parameters of your marriage.
Spoiler:
And do offer him the roleplay about forging students' marks and other mischiefs - you'll likely notice some activity going on inside his trousers
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:56 PM   #1325
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Re: Cause and effect

Speaking of roleplay, I'd like to share one more video that explains one of the many theories of how paraphilias appear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The School of Life
Every fetish or sexual obsession is really an imagined erotic solution to a real world anxiety.
As per Wikipedia:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Behavioral explanations propose that paraphilias are conditioned early in life, during an experience that pairs the paraphilic stimulus with intense sexual arousal. Susan Nolen-Hoeksema suggests that, once established, masturbatory fantasies about the stimulus reinforce and broaden the paraphilic arousal.
So it might be possible that your and Dima's shared memory of that very intense childhood situation, where such intense emotions as disobedience, shame and guilt were involved, ensures that you two won't have problems in bed

It's actually big luck that neither of you was married when the Moscow meetup happened and now he can reproduce those childhood events with his exact partner in crime - you.

I guess that adult-sized Soviet school uniforms can be found at some of the sex shops in Moscow, though I've never been to any of them.

Last edited by coon74; 05-17-2017 at 03:17 PM. Reason: rewording
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