I met with Richard and his people again to talk about price.

His bid came in 50% MORE than his original guesstimate and definitely over my budget. It's not doable and I told him that. We tinkered some with materials but it didn't bring it down much.

I told him that it wasn't going to work and that I need to think about next steps. I got about 3 blocks down the road and he called me back with an idea. So I drove back and we talked some more. He suggested we leave the layout in one of the bathrooms as is and he just puts all new materials in. It knocked it down quite a bit but I'm still not happy with the price. I went back to the condo to sort of check out the layout again and it occurred to me that with a little tweaking we might be able to do the same thing with the other master bath. I would move the sink and knock out a wall but not much else.

So, I went back to him and discussed this option as well. He thinks it will definitely save money but he sort of raised his eyebrow about keeping the layout. I get that - I don't get my dream bathroom anymore.

There's a couple of reasons the price tag is so high. One is that both bathrooms require a lot of moved plumbing. Doing this means running pipe through the concrete which isn't cheap. The plan b options pretty much eliminate that and hopefully get costs down a lot.

But the other reason I think is just that Richard is expensive. He has to pay for a storefront and employees and such. He's full service and I get that. But I now have a good layout and I'm contemplating trying to be the general contractor myself. I know I can save a ton doing this but I'm not at all sure if this is practical. I just don't have the time and trying to find labor and subs is a long and painful process if you work full time.

So, I'm just mulling my options now and waiting for Richard to come back.

Heh, didn't you learn your lesson last time?!?

I was all sorts of confused for a bit looking at the pictures and drawings until I figured out that the current layout drawing (for illustrative purposes only) is mirrored. Everything made a lot more sense when I flipped it.

Is that bowling alley of a foyer your space? I'm guessing no.

Moving the plumbing shouldn't make that much of a difference in price. Yeah, it's a PITA to cut concrete, but it's still only a couple days work for a couple guys. The vast majority of the costs for this should be in the cabinets, appliances, tile, etc.

If you paid a decent retainer to Richard I don't think you should feel bad about kicking him to the curb while still using his general design, but check the fine print. You could potentially be on the hook for additional design fees.

While I would certainly be a happy reader if you did the work yourself, I really don't recommend it. Can you go back to the first guy you talked with? Somebody with a good reputation who is willing to just be labor and let you buy your own material could be the best way to go.

Thanks zikzak. LOL, no - I'm a glutton for punishment! But that view!

Yeah, it's flipped.

The price he quoted me was, hold on to your hat - $150,000. That seems exorbitant to me. One example is he quoted me $100 sq. ft. for granite which I know I can get for $75. $6 sq ft (material only) for tile floors. I know I can do much better than that.

I did pay him a decent retainer and I'm wondering what I should ask for. He's created detailed construction plans as well that he didn't give me.

Yeah, the first guy really didn't want to do this big of a job. Immediately he balked at the floor. I think he just does things like replace existing cabinets and countertops and such.

I'm sort of back to thinking I'll be the general here. I definitely can't do the actual work myself but hopefully I can organize everything.

Holy crap, that's crazy money. Yeah, I think Richard has to go.

I'd check with the condo association, city and state before committing to GC'ing it yourself. FL has much stricter licensing laws than TX. I'm sure you can still do most work yourself on your own place, but it's worth looking into. The condo association is probably the one that's going to make your life miserable.

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm up for that. I just don't have the time this go around.

I just remembered that my real estate agent gave me 3 contractor references. She's really in the loop so I don't think she'll steer me wrong. I'll call them tomorrow.

I'm somewhat tempted to mix in my online dating adventures to make this more interesting.

LOL, OK.

Occasionally I can't resist the urge to troll.

Here is one profile I read. This is her entire profile:

"I enjoy kayaking biking crossword puzzles thrift store shopping traveling and cooking hiking nature gardening'

I couldn't resist sending her this message:

"Look like you need some commas!

Here you go ,,,,,,,,,,,,."

Would it be wrong to post pictures of hideous women that "like" me?

150 k for a bath remodeling? right?

No, it's a total remodel. Kitchen, and 2 baths.

I called the three references my agent gave me.

Brandon called me back pretty quickly. We talked some about it and he let me know that it might be a month before he can get to it. But he wanted me to send him some pics. So I did. I get the feeling he's sort of small time but we'll see.

Doug called me back right before I left work. He was at the top of the list that my agent had. Very highly recommended. We talked a bit and agreed to meet Wednesday at the condo. I have a pretty good feeling about him.

Richard sent me the updated plan with minimal changes to both bathrooms. He did not include a price. I'll call him tomorrow.

In online dating news, a 79 year old woman made me her favorite! Woot!

The more I think about this the more uncomfortable I am with Richard. He never gave me a written price. He never showed me any sort of cost breakdown. He did have some sort of list with possible overrun contingencies. Not only is his price high but I'm guessing it goes even higher as we get into it.

I'm also wondering what I have paid for. He had detailed construction plans drawn up. I paid him a retainer. I wonder if he lets me have this.

Did you sign anything? When I do design work on something I expect to build I never bother with detailed drawings until I have a contract for the whole project. I don't need them to bid the job and it seems strange to me to do the work on a 'maybe'.

I'm thinking Richard shows his true character when this conversation happens, for better or worse.

The third guy (Drew) called me this morning. He was pretty chatty and we talked a long time. I gave him an idea of what I was trying to do and told him how big the place was. He asked me a few questions including what I wanted the place for. He apparently does a lot of work for investors. Anyway, I asked him what he thought a price range would be. He went into detail about the things he typically does for people like me (new doors, knock down kitchen walls, remove tubs, etc.) and he thought between $70k and $90k. Personally I think it's going to be over 90 but his range is what I've been thinking.

I'll meet him Thursday.

I'm ruling out Brandon. He just seems sort of small time and disorganized.

Aaaaaaannnnnnnnddddd..... Richard called back with a new bid. The new bid is the living/kitchen remodel as we discussed but the bathrooms are merely new fixtures/tile. No moving any walls or anything. $132,000+. That really pissed me off.

In online dating news.........

There is some sort of match scam going on that I can't figure out. I get a ton of "Likes me"s and "winks" every day. The pics are usually young hot women. Sometimes their profile has been taken down by the time you click on it. Almost all have a sn with something like "textme" and a phone number. I'm not sure exactly what is going on here but it's obviously not kosher.

"HotGodLove" just winked at me!

I met with Doug just now. He's super organized. He brought an entire packet of "stuff" with him (copies of license, etc.). He's won several local awards for remodels - whatever an award for a remodel would be. I'm confident he'll do really good work if I hire him.

He gave me a guesstimate price range of 120,000 - 135,000. Ugh. He, like Richard, has a store and you have to buy all materials through him. I suspect that this adds to cost.

I'm not happy with the price but I'd probably pick him over Richard aorn.

Up next, Drew.

Jesus, I think I need to move to FL.

Are you asking for crazy high end appliances or something?

online dating.........

My first date on match. We messaged each other a few times and agreed to meet at a restaurant for dinner. She wasn't bad looking at all. I was pleasantly surprised. I thought our date went well. About 2 hours in I asked if she was ready to go and she said "no!". We ended up talking for about 4 1/2 hours total. I thought that was a good sign. We exchanged texts the next week and I called her to set up another date. We agreed that I would pick her up the next saturday and she said she would text me her address.

So, Saturday rolls around and she hadn't sent me her address. I had been dealing with Richard all day and I didn't get home until almost 2:00, and I was supposed to pick her up at 3:00. I was just about to text her for her address when she sent me one asking if she had sent it. I said no and she sent it to me. Then it got weird. She asked me if I wanted to postpone it a week. I asked why and she said because she had waited so long to send me her address. This seemed sorta weird to me.

I picked her up around 3:00 and we went to the local aquarium. After that we walked along the riverwalk here and eventually stopped and sat at a table overlooking the water. We drank a couple of beers and talked for a while. We ended up staying until about 9:30. I figured that was a good sign. She was super nice and I really liked her. However, the whole time it just seemed off. She was nice and the conversation was good and all, but she was kinda keeping her distance physically.

I took her home and got a quick kiss. The next day she texted me to tell me that she had also been dating another guy she met on match. Apparently, after our date she talked to him on the phone and they had agreed to exclusively date each other. She profusely apologized to me.

I told her no problem and I wished her the best. Too bad, she was a really nice person and I think we sorta clicked.

LOL, this doesn't include appliances.

I've gotta be missing something important in this remodel. The cost of living where you are is 20% lower than where I am, and these prices seem nuts to me.

I do a lot of subcontracting and have done a lot of work for home remodeling companies and had a salesman who had worked years in the home remodeling business.

They pretty much look for triple the price it's going to take to get the work done and will settle for double (material included). They will look super organized and then will hire that unorganized guy to do all the work. (and tell you that he's an employee when he isn't) Easy to be organized when your entire business is marketing and making sales presentations.

It's hard to know from looking at people who the right person for the job is to get a good price. A hack can look just like a pro and vice versa. But, you're never going to get top quality at a great price unless you're talking directly to the guy who puts on a toolbelt. (still could be a hack - could fail to complete job - could be lots of problems, but could also be a pro's pro and it's the only way to get the best deal)