Question for zikzak.

I've noticed that mortar mixers are different from concrete mixers. It looks like they have paddles or something in there. Is it horrible to just mix mortar in the concrete mixer? I really don't want to buy 2 mixers.

Nah, I've done it plenty. You'll be more prone to getting some clumpy, unmixed bits, tho. TBH, for the quantities of mortar you're likely to be using, your best bet is probably just a 5 gallon bucket with a paddle mixer in a drill. You're not going to get a lot of work time in the TX heat so a big batch is likely to set up on you before you can use it all.

Just don't do the opposite. Concrete in a mortar mixer will kill it pretty quickly.

I probably should be relieved or happy or something but I'm still pissed off.

Paging zikzak!

OK, this was my original idea for my porch steps. My plan was 5/12" rise with an 18" run.



But I'm sort of rethinking this approach. The engineer plans show stringers and based all the work it would take and how difficult it would be to get everything the proper height, I'm now leaning towards making stringers. If I can't get 18" it won't be horrible.

The rise needs to be 5 1/2". The original plan was to have an 18" run but I'm not sure this is possible using a 2x12 to make the stringer. What is the max run I can make out of a 2x12? Is there some sort of chart out there somewhere? I looked but I just couldnt find what I wanted. There are calculators but I got sort of confused when they wanted me to enter like tread type. Also, it doesn't seem like the calculator has any sort of max check. Just for grins I put 60" run and it accepted it. Obviously that is impossible.

So, based on the 2x12 stringer size and the 5 1/2" rise, do you know what the max run I can get is? At some point won't it get too weak?

Any other thinking outside of the box ideas? Triple up 3/4" plywood "stringers"? Probably won't pass inspection.

Thanks

5-1/2" rise and 18" run gives you 6" of uncut stinger at the thinnest point. That should be plenty for just a couple steps.

Awesome! Thanks.

I'm still having problems grasping the geometry here. It just doesn't seem logically possible to get 18" steps out of a 2x12. Maybe it is because the rise/run ratio changes the angle of the entire stringer? The smaller the ratio the closer to horizontal the stringer gets? I dunno. My brain is not functioning properly here.

I think when I start cutting and measuring the stringers the light bulb will come on.

Anyways, thanks a lot zikzak. This solves a ton of problems for me.

Wes came to do the layout inspection. Not much to it. I sort of explained what I was trying to do and he pretended to look at the plans the engineer drew. The only thing he mentioned was fastening it to the house (ledger).

The plans show 4 pedestal footings that are 12" think and 12" deep. They appear to be about 24" wide. Then there is a sonatube pedestal on top of the footing. That seems like overkill to me. 4 of them for a 6x12 wooden porch? I asked Wes about it and he said that because the plans were stamped by an engineer that the engineer has to inspect it, not him. Sheesh. That's another $200.

I also asked him about the inspections listed as required. Like insulation inspection? He told me all he would do is a framing and a final..

Anyways, it took about 10 minutes at most and he gave me a little green sticker.

Talked to the engineer about the footings. They seem like overkill to me. More support than my house has. He started jabbering about codes and stuff so I just gave up.

Went to Lowe's to order my porch. At first nobody what at the pro desk but eventually Don showed up. He didn't seem very amused. I sort of told him what I wanted to do and showed him the plans and started ordering. It was a pretty lengthy process, especially with the composite decking. They have to special order that. After a while Don really loosened up and started being a lot more helpful. He got me a manufacturer's discount, some sort of in-store discount (for larger purchases), set up 2 deliveries for the price of one, then cut the one delivery cost in half. Then my Lowe's card cut off another 5%. By the end of the order Don and I were good buddies.

Still cost me $2500. That composite decking is super expensive. But it is what I wanted.

While I was ordering another employee came to the desk and Don asked him what all that sawing was about. Apparently a customer wanted quite a few cuts. The employee said "he could have bought a saw". He wasn't exaggerating. The cuts came out to over $55 which will buy a low-end circular saw.

Well, my plan was to get some laborers to start digging holes tomorrow. And trenches for my planter wall footings. But it is raining now and we have more rain in the forecast. I would normally dig anyways but this black clay is not fun to deal with when it gets wet. It just globs onto everything and makes a huge mess. Just a well. I have a bit more planning to do.

zikzak - I'm having a little trouble conceptualizing how to do the steps.

The rim joist will be 2x6, right? The only way I see to attach a stringer directly to the rim joist would be to make the top part of the stringer the same level as the joist frame, thus widening that level. So I would have to make the joist frame smaller than the top level of the deck to accomodate this?

Or, is it possible to use something like a 2x10 for the rim joist allowing the top of the stringer to come down? This seems sort of wrong to me.

My other thought was to attach the top of the stringer to the support beam (double 2x8). That would make the step down 5 1/2" which is what I'm going for. I could probably do this but I'm sort of unsure how close that beam has to be to the edge of the rim joist to make that work. I'd have to make sure I set my posts properly do do this.

thoughts?

While googling this I found out that there is a little thing called a square gauge that you attach to your square. Must have.

OK, I think I have a plan. I don't know why this is so hard for me to visualize.

Here is my stringer. Part A will attach to the support beam and the entire "run" will be underneath the joists. I can cut the left side to whatever length makes it work. Part C will sit on top of the concrete pad. My plan is to have a bit of it hanging over so when you step down you won't be stepping on concrete. I can also sort of adjust the height that way by trimming the bottom of "C" if I need to.

fark!

That isn't going to work because that makes my first step 11 inches (joist thickness plus step thickness).

I just need to have the rise part off of A. I need to draw it on the board to see if it will be strong enough.

I'm back to thinking that the top deck frame has to be shortened and the left side of part A has to be attached to the rim joist and the top part of par A is essentially part of the deck frame.

Yep, think that will work. Top part of stringer becomes part of the deck frame. The bonus part of this is I can adjust the rise as needed after I put up the rest of the frame.

Yeah, if your rim joist is 2x6 that's probably the easiest way to go if you haven't poured any footers yet. Most of the other ideas you were kicking around would work, too. The top tread on the stringer doesn't need to be the full 18" either, if that helps. Just big enough to get a bracket or something on it, like maybe 2-3 inches.

Funny thing about stairs: There isn't a single damn thing in the thousands of pages of building codes about how to make them structurally sound. Every other structural component is detailed and specified within an inch of its life, and there are many paragraphs about stair riser heights, tread depths, nosings, etc. etc. But when it comes to how the heck they're supposed to not collapse... zilch.

My lumber and concrete was supposed to be delivered Tuesday. However, it was raining so they cancelled and told me they would deliver Thursday. But they didn't. The driver called my home number and since I wasn't at home, didn't deliver. So I called and they told me they would deliver Friday. Only they didn't. So I called Friday evening and he assured me they would deliver today. Only they didn't.

He assured me they would deliver Monday

Today was digging day. I wanted to get the footing holes dug and some of the trench around the bamboo done. My bamboo has escaped from it's original home and I need to put a stop to it. So, my plan was to dig an 18" (recommended) trench around it and pour concrete in the trench.

I went to the day labor place and asked for Rene, the guy that really works hard. Someone named Rene came out but it wasn't the same Rene. I asked the guy that runs the place about the other Rene and he said Rene was no longer welcome there. I remember him telling me he was bipolar so I'm guessing he had an episode. Anyways, I took the new Rene and asked for someone that knew concrete work. An older guy named Thomas came out.

I told both of them to just to work steady and take breaks whenever. Both of them worked just fine.

Thomas dug the footer holes by himself. The two deep ones are 2' deep, and 24" x 48". The big hole is 1' deep and 18" x 12'. The whole time this is going on I'm just getting madder and madder at the city for making me pour a foundation that could hold up the Empire State Building. This is going to take a bunch of concrete to fill up. ggrrrr.....

Meanwhile, Rene and I tackled the bamboo. That was REALLY HARD. First of all, that landscaping fabric was sort of buried where we needed to dig. That crap is almost impenetrable with a shovel so we had to dig and pull it up to get it out of the way. Although a shovel can't get through it, my bamboo has no problem. It was popping up everywhere through the mesh. On top of the fabric problem, we had to dig up bamboo roots everywhere. The whole thing was really tedious and slow. I gave up on the 18" idea pretty early on and we just tried to dig about 3 or 4 inches below the lowest bamboo root. I probably won't stop it all with the concrete but I'll get the bulk of it.

We did finish what I set out to do. Actually a little more. I didn't expect to get all the trenching done we did.

When I took the guys home, Thomas gave me a business card. It turns out his main occupation is landscaper and tree trimmer. I've got two large dead trees I may get him to take down. I may even just get him to do my little rock walls around the bamboo too. This sort of work is getting harder and harder for me to do. I got through lunch and pretty much was done.

Anyways, here's some pics.

Bamboo trench







Trench around my banana plants



Big rock pile mess.



1' deep footing for steps (geez I hate the city)



2' deep footings (know any mobsters than need to disappear?)

I hope when this is 100% done the first beer you have is the best beer you have ever tasted

In a strange turn of events, Lowe's called this morning and asked if they could deliver. I told the driver when he got here I didn't know they delivered on Sundays. He said they didn't but I guess they felt bad for delaying so much.

So, today I got morning wood!

My back hurts just looking at those 2 pallets of concrete.

2 words



I put together my concrete mixer. It required 3 wrench sizes. 9/16, 15/32 and 19/32. I have a lot of tools but I don't have any 32nd wrenches. wtf? Probably made in France. Had to put most of it together with a crescent wrench.

Anyways, his name is Eugene. Ain't he purty?

Today was concrete day.

One of the guys that I hired to dig holes last week turned out to be really handy. He not only has his own transportation but access to laborers and all the tools he needs. His business card says tree trimming and landscaping but he knows concrete as well. I hired him to take down two large dead hackberries and he did a fine job so I asked him to bring another guy to do the concrete work today.

They got going and it wasn't too long before I figured the best thing for me to do was just get out of their way. They were a machine.

They poured all the footings and all of the bamboo trenches. They went through both pallets of concrete and I ended up having to get more. They went through another 12 bags. That's a LOT of concrete.

I'll get Tomas to do the rockwork (on top of the bamboo trenches) as well. But, I've pretty much destroyed my monthly budget this month. Gonna have to wait.

Footings





Bamboo trenches





Trench around bananas



I didn't even ask them to do this but they scrubbed that mixer down. Clean as a whistle.