Its all about the waitlists imo. Like hood says alot of times the waitlists are full of fish who dont want to sit HU with someone so they just wait, but as soon as a game has 3 players in it, the rest will come running. In these circumstances i always try to just get a game going even if it requires playing a decent player HU until one of the fish feels tough and sits and the rest follow.

Sometimes though the waitlists are just full of regs and theres really no point in playing HU as the table is just going to fill with VPP grinders who have no game selection and just sit at any open table they see.

Also Hood, i wouldn be suprised if i were you, if i wanted to play someone HU to start a game, i wouldnt choose you

i tilt like a mother**** these days, it's sad

What's the etiquette rule on joining a reg hu, and stalling every hand until the fish show up?

I don't really get why so many people sit at so many different tables, if a fish sits they're gonna get swarmed by regs in like 1 min anyways. I wouldn't want to play someone good at 3/6 or 5/T HU because the rake is pretty massive, especially at non HU tables, and you never know when a drooler will sit (sometimes it's a while, although with that few tables it's prolly likely to happen sooner). I'll sit at open tables if no one else is game creating, otherwise I don't bother. I will always sit on a fish's left though if a new game starts and I expect other regs to do the same if I'm game creating.

Why? What is causing that? I find myself tilting so much less that I feel like I actually might be able to play higher stakes down the road.

the state of the games tilts the everliving **** out of me

all day, every day, you see *******s like slimfast and ronin666_ps and whatever the latest losing-rakeback-chasing-tard-du-jour happens to be and they are everywhere. And they all suck. And their stupidity tilts me to no end because they, for some reason, think that playing 300 hours of 1/2 per month against other players doing the exact same thing -- in a high rake environment, no less -- is some sort of viable, worthwhile existence

every table i open up these days starts with me and a fish or two, then a bunch of lousy 24/16 russian morons show up, then a fish leaves and a terrible LAG shows up, then the other fish leaves and some other nitty moron shows up

and they piss me off even more because most don't speak english so when I call them a ****ing moron and tell them nice work losing $20k in order to earn back $22k in RB, it's like greek to them

i just tilt easily at stupidity and there's an assload of it at 1/2 and 2/4. I actually think the regulars are 1000% more ******ed than your casual passive 60/8 fish looking to have fun.

in other words, time to move up

Fair enough. I can't argue with you on any of those points.

I am getting so bored of "game starters" thinking they are actually doing anything useful. Hey, ever notice that there are like 10+ people at each stakes trying to start games? Think maybe you might not matter? It's especially funny when the heads up specialists think they are accomplishing something positive for the community and criticize regs for not playing them, and then bolt the second the game gets 3-6 handed (suggesting they never had any intention of playing the type of game the table is actually meant for... quite a contribution there!). This describes about 90% of the heads up specialists who start 6-max and fr games. I personally miss being one of the few people starting games in '09, and would be perfectly happy if all of you vanished so I don't have to wait 30 minutes when I game create.

ya **** y'all

no u

Personally Unguarded, I'd love it if you'd please stop using your mind powers to make me play terrible against you and everyone.

Just want to add that from the other side of this it does get frustrating when you have these regs that will never start a game, but will always join your heads up match, of course always taking position on the fish.

tl;dr - stop sitting down on the direct right of people.

I'm one of those guys you're talking about. I game start on Stars (among others), mostly 5/T but also some 3/6 or 10/20. Both 6max and FR. Been doing it since I was at 1/2. Pretty sure I've refused to play you at one point or the other, not entirely sure it was in the last few days.

But unlike some of the others I game start specifically to fill tables and will continue to play even 6- or 10-handed. I strive to 5- or 6-table good or decent games so I necessarily have to keep playing. There's been tons of times where I've started something like four out of six running FR tables. Though at that point I'm usually only still playing on two of them, the others being flooded by mass grinders with the fish long gone.

Across all sites (2-3) I usually get enough HUHU (ie. table starting) action vs. fish so I'd be dumb to play someone like you. Also, and I'm fairly sure this includes you, all regs except one or maybe two who've wanted to play "just to get a table going" obviously sat down on my direct right. Yeah... nice try. That table sucks from the get-go then. No wonder I refuse to play.

Now, the higher the stakes the harder it gets to get action, LDO. It's definitely much harder to get a table going at 10/20 than it was at 3/6. FR tables in particular. I can see me playing vs. regs like you in the not-too-distant future to start tables. But I don't see this involving the other reg sitting on my right 100%. Also, at least for now, the last thing on my mind is to play a reg at my highest stake because I'm probably not fully comfortable at that stake, be it due to the swings or the toughness of the established regs.

Hehe, I think it's easy to run bad against someone and then get tilted against them for awhile as a result. I definitely do sometimes. I haven't noticed you playing bad... maybe a little laggier than usual.

Well ya, that's always going to be annoying but is obv just part of the game. I just sometimes get tired of the "I'm an f'ing game starter, bow down biatches!" sort of attitude that some of them have... epecially the ones that don't even play 3+ handed. I also get annoyed when they act like they're so amazing HUHU that they can beat the rake against regs who have a clue. I guess it's possible, but as bad as most of these people play 3+ handed, I would be shocked if they understand poker well enough to do so. For the most part, it just sounds like dick waving to me with nothing to back it up.

Ya, sitting directly to your right is a huge dbag move. If you want to try and start a game reg vs. reg, sit across from each other. That should be common sense.

true but even 1-2 hands with fish is better than none before regs come.

i miss 09 too.

also no 3 or 5 reg will play against each other with how high rake is.

as far as i see it , i just try to find best seats out there regardless of how i have to get them. its just the nature of the beast. regs are going to "steal" your seats all day over and over again. i just take it and move on.

MI2 update: He is now shortstacking 15/30. I think I saw him bust and min reload about a dozen times tonight at my tables. Before I ever played with him about a year and a half ago, I thought he was supposed to be a super tough mid-stakes reg on his way to Tpirahna-like superstardom. After all, he was crushing at like 1.5 BB/100 while mass multi-tabling and taking shots at 30/60 and received a lot of compliments in Relentless Assault from Deathdonkey. I am beginning to wonder if he will ever make it back though.

yeah so weird, I also used to have the impression from 2p2 posts that he is very solid before I played with him, nowdays I have him at ubernit stats and playing straightforward weaktightish ABC tag

True, yet for hu players action is so sparse these days that I can understand them trying to get even just those 2-4 hands in! plus they can ask the guy if he wants hu (which they occasionally do.) And also, it's a form of protest for stars not offering hu tables. Just make the lobby uglier and uglier. On FTP this doesn't matter, but if stars put all the hu tables down with the others, it would clean things up a bit for sure.

he's the ultimate grinder for sure, but he's fallen off the path to Piranhadom for sure (but who hasn't these days lol).

he's gone through a lot of strange transformations. fwiw I don't think he is shortstacking because he is busto, because he has done it before w/o being busto, as a strategy of some sort.

Fwiw, I am 100% for HU tables at 15/30+. I feel bad for HU players for not having them, but at the same time I don't feel bad enough to be ok with the "hu plz" people messing up what games we have. What has been tried so far? Like maybe a petition of some sort sent to Stars? It seems like they have to be losing a lot of customers to other sites because of this, though I have heard some arguments lately suggesting high stakes players aren't a priority for Stars.

I try not to think about what might have been in '05 lol... I guess I try to look forward to the next poker boom whenever that might be.

On MI2, ya... I've heard he actually is in great shape financially. I didn't think he was busto, just that it's a strange thing to do and seems a bit like a desperate attempt to get out of small stakes. When I watch him play, it seems like the effort isn't there anymore... like he's just horribly burned out. One of the few times I have talked with him in chat, he said that he usually watches movies while he plays. It certainly looks like he is more interested in his movie than the game sometimes.

I always sit directly across from a player. The only time I sit direct to their right is if someone refused to actually start a game and just sit out. Then I will sit to their right.

I do this because it's frustrating watching people just come in and sit at 4 empty 6max tables, sit out when anyone half decent comes along, and just expects these 4 juicy games to grow around them, when there's others who are actually trying to to start games and *gasp* happy to play some HUHU with other good players to get a game going.

It's possible in your case I made a mistake and didn't give you the opportunity to actually sit in and play, but I doubt it, I'm pretty fastidious with this, I actually take notes on who is and isn't willing to start games. And I often confirm in chat and say stuff like "if you actually want to start a game, just say in chat and I'll sit directly across from you".

To be honest it's pretty slimy to say I do otherwise.

See above. :rollyeyes: all you like. Yes or no - if I sit across from you (which I almost certainly did the first time I sat you), would you play? If no, then all this is totally irrelevant.

There's a bunch of players who are just there at 3/6 and 5/10 to get HUHU action. They think they can skip the line of the 20+ waiting at the heads up tables, so they sit 2, 3 or more empty 6-max tables.

In my opinion, you have no 'right' to start the games with the players you choose. Those who are actually winning to play someone half decent and get a game started trump that.


Not sure if this is directed at me, but just to be clear, I am trying to start actual games (I play 1-2k of ring hands daily) and I don't have any kind of "bow dow" attitude. I just want to start games and I think it's dumb a bunch of people are actually just looking to insta-bag a greeny on their right and if they don't they move in.

I also have no kind of complex that I'm great at HUHU and have a big edge over other regs, although whether I do or not isn't too relevant. I'm just willing to take a very minor -EV plays sometimes so I can actually get playing some poker.

And there's times when I quit when a game breaks down to 2-handed or someone solid sits my 6-max table. Just the other day I quit GiantBuddha when the game broke, and I sat out playing 8donuts and notsogood... often I already have 3-4 tables going and don't want the action.

But when that happens I accept that they take the right to wait and start the next game. So I shut the table and don't wait at a new 6-max table.

That's just my attitude, I think those who are willing to play others to get a game going have the right to start the table. Obviously there are those who disagree and there's nowt I can do about it, I was just posting here how dumb it is because often they are just shooting themselves in the foot (see my original post).

And tbh I don't think my attitude will change if people thinks I'm a dbag if I sit to the direct right and block tables of those unwilling to actual start a table, and are clearly angling for some heads up action when there are a bunch of others who really are trying to start games.

I don't want to keep clogging up this nice thread with my posts, it's not my home and I don't want to throw my weight around, so I'll try not to ramble on any more

See you all at the tables.

Again just to be clear, I do sit direct across from anyone willing to play me, I agree it's common sense and have got a bit pissy in the past when other regs have joined direct to the right of me. If someone feels i don't do this, just sat in chat or shoot me a PM and i'll sit direct across so we can play.

1st paragraph -- Why would you feel bad for hu players not having hu tables at 15+? These jackass bumhunters (not including all hu regs, obv, but a pretty significant % of them) already feel entitled to all the fish hu they want, i.e., "ZOMG WHY WON'T YOU WONT RESPECT OUR HU GAMMMEEEEEE??". People like me and you will play hu up to 10 handed. Why should "HU ONLY" regs be rewarded? If anything, they should be punished for extreme nittiness.

2nd -- Yeah he apparently owns a bunch of restaurants or something. A few years ago he was a pretty tough winner. And as dalla said, this shortstacking thing is nothing new from him.

If people just love HU or feel especially talented at it, I respect that. I'm a pretty extreme bumhunter myself with poor tolerance for variance, so I can't really knock them for that either hehe. I actually very rarely play HU unless game starting because I lack experience and don't have much of a feel for how good or bad I am at it. I know I was bad in '09, but am prolly at least decent now. But basically, I want people to be able to play their favorite game. Right now, we basically punish hu specialists at will with angle shooting being about their only defense against us chasing them across the site. As I recall, there are some arguments for keeping things the way they are but I don't remember them anymore. But ya, I don't feel bad for the most annoying hu specialists.

damn, way to sell the guy short...