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Old 05-09-2013, 08:44 AM   #176
Sect7G
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
There is a players named joshbradford or something like that who was the worst ever. His winrate was something like 6 BB/100 because he exploited this so hard at 2/4-3/6. He didn't even care if he Jesus seated the 3 worst players on the site... he would take his free hands, rinse, and repeat no matter what.
He's been doing this for years and is one of the most successful players doing it. I remember first seeing him in 2009 and I'm sure people have complained about it multiple times.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:25 PM   #177
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
There is a players named joshbradford or something like that who was the worst ever. His winrate was something like 6 BB/100 because he exploited this so hard at 2/4-3/6. He didn't even care if he Jesus seated the 3 worst players on the site... he would take his free hands, rinse, and repeat no matter what.
LOL yes I remember this. It was definitely amazing watching him get up from the softest games ever to go sit on new tables. I always thought it was weird when I looked at top BB/100 winners for a stake and they were players that I had played basically zero ****ing hands with and I couldn't find them playing a lot of HUHU. Desktop775 was another guy that stood out.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:34 PM   #178
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMexico View Post
LOL yes I remember this. It was definitely amazing watching him get up from the softest games ever to go sit on new tables. I always thought it was weird when I looked at top BB/100 winners for a stake and they were players that I had played basically zero ****ing hands with and I couldn't find them playing a lot of HUHU. Desktop775 was another guy that stood out.
There are maybe 20-30 players pulling that scam. So frustrating watching them doing this every single day being top BB/100 winners without Stars doing anything.

FWIW lifeisagame is worst of the worst. Sitting 15 tables seat 1 timing out with a non-raising hand and never ever posting big blind. But there are many others obv.
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Old 05-10-2013, 02:41 AM   #179
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

For Pokerstars Steve: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...23/index5.html

also I still dont recieve any reply to my letter.
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:48 PM   #180
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
Making the table-cap lower at LHE would be a solution imo. Although it wouldn't solve everything.
I'm not sure how the table-cap works either. Is it the average time for every decision, or the time of a decision when playing X tables that counts?
We grant table caps based on the average time to act during the last month as well as the average number of tables a player played.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw View Post
This is a bit depressing. These are players who have abused and almost certainly done great damage to your games. We dont need the table speed changed, you just need you to have a look at the stats you now have on players who's average time to act is far too long, and deal with them.
It may be that they dont play as many tables as NL players but that's no exucuse for letting them play more tables then they can handle.
Its not tricky, its hard to see why Stars haven't got to grips with it. You need this resolved at least as much as we do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
Regarding the slow players. Reducing table-time wouldn't be a good solution. There do arise hard spots where you need some time to think. Unlike NL though, some actions require very little thinking, which makes LHE a fairly quick game. That's why it can be more annoying when someone plays slow on every hand.
If the impression is that players who are only playing a few tables are an issue as well as mass-multi-tablers, the only real solution as we see it is to reduce the time to act you get at the tables.

As stated, we already do look at the average time to act of players who play very slowly. However, this program is specifically to combat players who are playing slowly because they are playing more tables than they can handle.
It is a fair point that we might not be aggressive enough with lowering Table Caps, so I will look into being more harsh with our next set of Table Cap adjustments. However, please keep in mind this will still not help with those who only play one or two tables at a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
i dont undertand why you dont implement a wait list cap. even something silly like 10 max to start. and if a player doesnt take a seat when its their turn, no waiting that table for 5mins. this seems like a no brainer that wouldnt negatively effect anyone. try it, and i bet it would make the games better and player happier. then you'll be wondering why you didnt make 3 cap 20min wait.
Iíve seen a lot of people complain that waitlists are too big, but Iím not entirely sure what the negative effect of a large waitlist is or what problem capping the number of players on a waiting list would solve. A clearer explanation of the problems people see with large waitlists would be appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piranha View Post
Steve,
How can the seat assignments on Poker Stars not be random at this point? What are you guys doing to fix this?
Also, there is a player sitting every day alone at a table from 10/20 to 1000/2000. He picks the seat so that he gets the button every time the game starts and very rarely plays more than two orbits. So what happens is he plays 12 hands on average, 1 is the big blind, 1 is the small blind, and the other 10 hands are non-blind positions. This is stealing from the other players and is hugely profitable. Is there something that can be done about this?
Weíve recently discussed methods of making the seating and table starting mechanics more fair due to concerns like these.

If you think this player is grimming, please either PM me with his screen name or report him to Support@PokerStars.com.

I see multiple reports of specific users in the thread, but note that most of them are not exact userids. Iím happy to ensure we take a look at reports made here if the userid is correct, but suggest that itís better to submit the names in private.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlsFold View Post
There are maybe 20-30 players pulling that scam. So frustrating watching them doing this every single day being top BB/100 winners without Stars doing anything.
FWIW lifeisagame is worst of the worst. Sitting 15 tables seat 1 timing out with a non-raising hand and never ever posting big blind. But there are many others obv.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entusiowe_ucho View Post
5. Track all the dodgers mentioned by detective Tp like jamadharma (I think he's the one Tp is talking about) who freeroll their hands when the table opens without posting the blinds.
If you see any abusive behavior, we absolutely want you to report it to us at Support@PokerStars.com. We investigate every report and take blind abuse very seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entusiowe_ucho View Post
1. I'm shocked no one is talking about adding 15/30 - 1/2k hu tables. It would solve the problem with regs waiting only for HU and make the lobby more clear.
We are avoiding adding new heads-up tables until we improve our heads-up lobby, hopefully later this year. There are still plenty of players trying to play HU at games/stakes for which dedicated HU tables are offered, so while the HU tables might help, I donít think they would solve the problem.

We plan to deploy two improvements to the ring games lobby over the next few months. You can check out our initial testing of the first new feature at the $25/$50 and $50/$100 NLHE CAP tables. There is only one non-dealing table of each type there. In the next few months we also plan to remove the ability for players to sit out at non-dealing tables. I expect these changes will greatly improve lobby clarity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entusiowe_ucho View Post
3. Reduce the number of 6max and FR tables you can open to, for instance, 5 for each stake (not taking into account those where at least 2 players are seated) so that regs don't open million tables and the lobby can look more friendly
As stated above, we have developed this feature and are already testing it. We expect to roll it out more widely after clients are released with more accurate messaging during table closures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entusiowe_ucho View Post
4. Get rid of table starters because they work awfully plus a lot of retarded regs haven't figured out yet that it's nonsense to use them and just litter the lobby
Could you explain exactly what you think is broken about Table Starters? We see a some complaints about them in the forums, but we havenít seen a good list of exactly what downsides people see to having them on the site. We also see some players say that theyíre pleased with them in general and at some combinations of stakes and game types they are quite frequently used.
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Old 05-10-2013, 05:32 PM   #181
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Nick View Post
If the impression is that players who are only playing a few tables are an issue as well as mass-multi-tablers, the only real solution as we see it is to reduce the time to act you get at the tables.
Even if some slow players only play a few tables that's no reason at all not to tackle the problem of those who are slow because they are playing too many. Someone playing many tables slowly is much more of a problem than someone paying a few slowly and its easy for you to deal with.

Quote:
As stated, we already do look at the average time to act of players who play very slowly. However, this program is specifically to combat players who are playing slowly because they are playing more tables than they can handle.
It is a fair point that we might not be aggressive enough with lowering Table Caps, so I will look into being more harsh with our next set of Table Cap adjustments. However, please keep in mind this will still not help with those who only play one or two tables at a time.
Thank you. i'll try to remain hopeful though it's hard to understand how you are still refering to our impressions rather than refering to analysis of the solid objective data you have.

Can you at least promise to come back with the results of some overall analysis of average time to acts in LHE and giving us some hard facts on how slow the worst players are, how many tables they play and how many of them there are. I dont expect names or even exact numbers but I would hope its time to move past 'impressions'. I expect its just a few and very little action by you is required to make a huge difference.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:18 PM   #182
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

I doubt the tablecaps ever do something for LHE, since it's monthly averages, and given the low amount of tables at certain times of the day the slow players averages go way up.
Reducing table-time doesn't seem like a good thing either, so I guess we'll just have to live with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PS nick
If you see any abusive behavior, we absolutely want you to report it to us at Support@PokerStars.com. We investigate every report and take blind abuse very seriously.
If there are people who mail on almost a daily basis and don't see any change, it's understandable they feel like something more structural needs to be done.
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Old 05-10-2013, 07:37 PM   #183
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Default table cap is 24.
People who are slow at LHE play 10-12 tables. And I'm pretty sure, their table cap will never be lowered to this point. So this is a pretty useless feature for LHE.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:33 PM   #184
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
Default table cap is 24.
People who are slow at LHE play 10-12 tables. And I'm pretty sure, their table cap will never be lowered to this point. So this is a pretty useless feature for LHE.
PS Nick. can you confirm whetehr or not you will be considering LHE specifically.

Otherwise it does seem a pointless discussion.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:07 AM   #185
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Nick View Post

Iíve seen a lot of people complain that waitlists are too big, but Iím not entirely sure what the negative effect of a large waitlist is or what problem capping the number of players on a waiting list would solve. A clearer explanation of the problems people see with large waitlists would be appreciated.
1. it seizes up the lobby. with so few players willing to start games, the lobby can often have several full tables with large waitlists. a small number of players will sit alone, and there will often be zero games for players to jump into immediately.

eg players/wait

1
1
6 - 4
6 - 11
6 - 7
6 - 6
6 - 9

this is how it should look like, and would be if the cap was 3 players

2
2
3
4
5
5
6 - 3
6 - 1
6 - 2
6 - 3
6 - 3
6 - 2


2. players abuse the waitlist by endlessly rejoining the waitlist when they dont get the jesus seat. if they dont take the seat and then arent allowed to rejoin the list, the seats will open up for anyone willing to play to sit immediately. this will free up the lobby.
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Old 05-11-2013, 07:37 AM   #186
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
this is how it should look like, and would be if the cap was 3 players
no it wouldn't.
take a 10 player waitinglist and see with how many players you'd like to play.
A table of regs doesn't keep running, a table with fish fills up. Capping the waitinglist doesn't make that different.
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Old 05-11-2013, 08:06 AM   #187
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
no it wouldn't.
take a 10 player waitinglist and see with how many players you'd like to play.
A table of regs doesn't keep running, a table with fish fills up. Capping the waitinglist doesn't make that different.
those 10 players arent contributing anything to the lobby liquity, there will still be the same number tables with capped lists, but those 10 players will have to either get games up, or leave. regs starting games means more reg vs reg huhu, more open seats, and a better playing environment.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:37 PM   #188
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
those 10 players arent contributing anything to the lobby liquity, there will still be the same number tables with capped lists, but those 10 players will have to either get games up, or leave.
Or maniacally watch the lobby for a waitinglistspot to come up.
Quote:
regs starting games means more reg vs reg huhu
really?

look at all that reg vs reg action.
the fix for this is capping the number of non-dealing tables, capping the waitinglist doesn't do a thing.
Quote:
more open seats, and a better playing environment.
Would you change your behavior if this gets implemented? Would you play hu vs another reg while you wouldn't now?
Do you really think players now go: "I'm not going to play against another reg, because I can be no. 12 on some waitinglist."?
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:51 PM   #189
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
Or maniacally watch the lobby for a waitinglistspot to come up.
this would be such a waste of time that they would just quit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
really?

look at all that reg vs reg action.
the fix for this is capping the number of non-dealing tables, capping the waitinglist doesn't do a thing.

capping non-dealing tables would be a good thing. stars have indicated they are looking into this. i hope something comes about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
Would you change your behavior if this gets implemented? Would you play hu vs another reg while you wouldn't now?
Do you really think players now go: "I'm not going to play against another reg, because I can be no. 12 on some waitinglist."?
there will be very few waitlists available. watching the waitlist for an opportunity to join it isnt viable. and while there will probably be a ton of non-playing tables, they wont get enough hands and realize that they will have to start a game to play. it would be even better if stars cap the non-playing tables.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:18 PM   #190
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Capping the waitlists is a horrible idea. The blind grimmers like joshbradford and jama would have a field day.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:25 PM   #191
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
this would be such a waste of time that they would just quit.
If I don't have enough tables running I constantly keep an eye on the lobby, this is not going to change.
Quote:
there will be very few waitlists available. watching the waitlist for an opportunity to join it isnt viable. and while there will probably be a ton of non-playing tables, they wont get enough hands and realize that they will have to start a game to play. it would be even better if stars cap the non-playing tables.
"very few". Most of the time the majority of waitlists are 3 or less players anyway.
Watching the waitlists is surely viable, not to mention scripts to autojoin a waitlist, which isn't illegal right now.

You say "they", while my question was pointed to you.
Would you start playing regs hu? If so, why don't you do it now, if not, why do you expect other players to do so?
Nobody sacrifices EV for nothing.


On another note, while writing my above reply I watched the waitinglist for a bit: is using software to auto-join waitinglists while never actually taking a seat (due to afk I presume) against the rules?
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:35 AM   #192
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
You say "they", while my question was pointed to you.
Would you start playing regs hu? If so, why don't you do it now, if not, why do you expect other players to do so?
Nobody sacrifices EV for nothing.
obviously i wouldnt suggest what i suggested if i wasnt willing to start games. part of the reason for my suggestion is i cant start a game when all the table are full. no one will play me, and i have to wait for a rando to sit, usually followed by a ninja.

cap the waitlist at zero, and cap the non-dealing tables to 1 for all i care.
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:51 AM   #193
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Kudos to you then, you'll be king of the hill when they cap the non-dealing tables.
capping the waitinglist won't change anything, and definitely not something capping non-dealing tables won't fix.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:02 AM   #194
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Capping the waitlists would be a disaster. If all the regulars start game-creating, and all the other regs are forced to join crap tables, you'll have loads of regulars doing the jama/joshbradford thing intentionally or not. Which means that everyone will have to start doing it.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:28 AM   #195
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
Kudos to you then, you'll be king of the hill when they cap the non-dealing tables.
capping the waitinglist won't change anything, and definitely not something capping non-dealing tables won't fix.
if you think that capping the waitlist wont do anything, then why not just do it anyway? no downside with a possible upside.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:32 AM   #196
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Protagonist View Post
Capping the waitlists would be a disaster. If all the regulars start game-creating, and all the other regs are forced to join crap tables, you'll have loads of regulars doing the jama/joshbradford thing intentionally or not. Which means that everyone will have to start doing it.
i dont think it will go this way. its more likely to for a huhu game to start, a rando sits, and the players who cant join a list will ninja the rando. the final seats fill, rinse and repeat.
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Old 05-12-2013, 05:10 AM   #197
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
if you think that capping the waitlist wont do anything, then why not just do it anyway? no downside with a possible upside.
People don't like change, and pokerstars will never change anything unless it has an upside and is supported by the players.

Most regs will start to use scripts/software to join the waitinglists, which means it'll be nearly impossible for any random player to join a waitinglist, which basically comes down to forcing new players to play shorthanded.

Large waitinglists are not the problem. Players not willing to start games are. An excellent solution is capping the non-dealing tables, which will happen according to PS nick, so just be patient.

Either way, this is a big change, opinions about whether it will help diverge and it's clearly not supported by the majority of players. Let's leave the topic of capping waitlists alone and focus on things that are more supported and important.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:41 PM   #198
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Protagonist View Post
Capping the waitlists would be a disaster. If all the regulars start game-creating, and all the other regs are forced to join crap tables, you'll have loads of regulars doing the jama/joshbradford thing intentionally or not. Which means that everyone will have to start doing it.
This will definitely be a big problem - a lot of those who are sitting alone at empty tables are already buttoning other regulars when they decide join the table.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:33 PM   #199
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Simple Software Solution:
If someone times out the full minute from an initial waitlist prompt (ie: they are away from keyboard, get a prompt for a waitlist spot and never respond in any way), remove them from all their waitlists.

Sometimes at the end of a session I forget to leave waitlists and go take a piss, get food, whatever, and when my waitlist spots come up I just end up timing them all out. I'm sure plenty of others do the same.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:20 PM   #200
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Looks like king of the hill has been implemented across all high stakes NL/PL/FL 6m/full ring tables. There is no reason why this shouldnt be the case at all stakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
We have a software feature that we plan to release in the next few months to address the issue of players who are sitting at a table and aren't willing to play with others who sit with them. The basic premise is that we will limit the number of non-dealing tables in the lobby, requiring you to play with the players at that limit who are willing to play, if you want to sit at a table at that limit. Additionally we plan to remove the ability to sit out at a table that is not dealing.
Excellent! Let me suggest you remove the ability to sit out at a dealing table while playing (posting blind) on others. Otherwise there will be table campers all over just like on Party.
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