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Old 05-04-2013, 12:00 AM   #151
PlsFold
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Protagonist View Post
In general, fish don't like empty seats. But a fish is never going to notice "waitlist bumhunting." The only problem is that it takes too long to refuse a seat after you've clicked "yes." If it didn't take that full minute, then a more willing regular in the rotation would get the seat before the game breaks.
Except for the SNE grinders there mostly wont be any willing regulars in the rotation plus it decreases the recreational player ability to jump straight into a running game. Instead he clicks the no limit or sit n go tab.
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Old 05-04-2013, 04:41 AM   #152
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlsFold View Post
Pokerstars Nick,
In this thread about so called "game creators" you confirm that

Quote:
Originally Posted by balrog
there is nothing wrong with playing heads-up at a table that supports more than 2 players, and leaving when the table fills - so long as you pay your fair share of blinds in the process.
If I should follow the game creators logic there would be no tables running at all if they were banned. It is of course the recreational player whos the game creator.

Is it wrong if these "game creators" refuse game creating with the vast majority sitting in as the second player?

If this isnt acceptable, what will you do about it?
The responses in that thread were specifically about blind abuse as it relates to players who play on 6max or Full Ring tables as the tables fill and empty.

We have a software feature that we plan to release in the next few months to address the issue of players who are sitting at a table and aren't willing to play with others who sit with them. The basic premise is that we will limit the number of non-dealing tables in the lobby, requiring you to play with the players at that limit who are willing to play, if you want to sit at a table at that limit. Additionally we plan to remove the ability to sit out at a table that is not dealing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlsFold View Post
I have myself reported at least 20 crystal clear violations by everyday anglers/grimmers/table campers/waitlist spammers, only to see them the next day doing the exactly same thing over and over.
The list of "anglers/grimmers/table campers/waitlist spammers" includes behavior where our response ranges from no action to permanent bans. While I cannot comment on individual cases, if you report a player for behavior that we take action against, the initial action will likely be a warning. Then, depending on the offence, subsequent violations will result in being barred from the site.

In addition, we have recently committed to taking swifter and more severe action against players that break our Ring Games rules.

Practically speaking, very rarely do we run across repeat blind abuse offenders. One reason for the difference in our experience and player perception is that it can take a while for a complaint or proactive identification via report to be investigated. We try to investigate within a week and often do so more quickly, but it can at times take longer.

Players may send in multiple complaints about the same player prior to the first complaint being reviewed and acted upon. Once we warn the offending player, we would need an additional incident after that point in order to take action.

If these players have persisted in their behavior beyond a week or two past the initial report, have you reported them again?

If you feel you have reported players for whom appropriate action has not been taken in line with the above explanation, I would very much appreciate it if you would PM Nick both your userid and the offending player’s userid so that he can review our performance.


Slow Players

We do currently analyze the playing speed of every player on the site once a month and adjust the Table Cap of players who act very quickly and very slowly who play a large number of tables on average.

This will naturally only affect players who play a large number of tables as we have generally thought of as the cause of the bulk of the slow play issues, but from what some of you have said in this thread, maybe that isn't as much the case in LHE.

Making any changes to table speed is not a decision we would take lightly, and we very recently changed the speed of the vast majority of our tables. Any loss of decision time has historically been loudly complained about in the forums, but if a large enough group of people think there is too much time to act in our Limit Hold’em games at present, we will look into the issue.


Waiting Lists

We don't currently have any plans to change waiting list behavior, but as we are hearing many more complaints these days, we're starting to look at options.

Any descriptions of specific problems you see (as some of you have done already) are always very helpful, as are suggestions for changes.

We are not likely to add additional manual checks of sitting out behavior over and above what we have already implemented, but we are open to software solutions that address any widespread issues.

In general, we greatly prefer software solutions that prevent the issue from occurring rather than retroactively punishing players for negative behavior after the fact. This is both because of resource issues and because it’s a much better customer experience for all involved, including offending parties and their opponents.


Limit Hold'em Promotions

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
Regarding Limit hold'em promotions specifically, we did follow through on our committment during the player meetings. We committed to hold a SuperStar Showdown type match at LHE. We spent quite a lot of time trying to match players up, but in the end had to ask Daniel to play just to get a single match in because we couldn't find willing opponents otherwise. Even after the first match we were trying to find willing opponents for another one, but we were unable to do so.

If Omaha week is successful, you're likely to see similar weeks in the future featuring other games. Limit hold'em would be near or at the front of the line of other games to be promoted. It might well have been first, but the timing was right for an Omaha week due to the release of 5 Card Omaha and Courchevel. In any case, hopefully these promotions will go well and every game will get its turn.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...l#post37719052

The PLO week was judged to be a success. We’ll very likely have a LHE week before too long. I can’t provide any kind of timeline as to when, as our promotional schedules change quite frequently. I can tell you that it is on our current calendar for a specific week, but a high percentage of promotions end up running at a different time that originally planned.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:34 AM   #153
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
Slow Players

We do currently analyze the playing speed of every player on the site once a month and adjust the Table Cap of players who act very quickly and very slowly who play a large number of tables on average.

This will naturally only affect players who play a large number of tables as we have generally thought of as the cause of the bulk of the slow play issues, but from what some of you have said in this thread, maybe that isn't as much the case in LHE.

Making any changes to table speed is not a decision we would take lightly, and we very recently changed the speed of the vast majority of our tables. Any loss of decision time has historically been loudly complained about in the forums, but if a large enough group of people think there is too much time to act in our Limit Hold’em games at present, we will look into the issue.
This is a bit depressing. These are players who have abused and almost certainly done great damage to your games. We dont need the table speed changed, you just need you to have a look at the stats you now have on players who's average time to act is far too long, and deal with them.

It may be that they dont play as many tables as NL players but that's no exucuse for letting them play more tables then they can handle.

Its not tricky, its hard to see why Stars haven't got to grips with it. You need this resolved at least as much as we do.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:41 AM   #154
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

who are those slow players?
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Old 05-04-2013, 08:36 AM   #155
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Regarding the slow players. Reducing table-time wouldn't be a good solution. There do arise hard spots where you need some time to think. Unlike NL though, some actions require very little thinking, which makes LHE a fairly quick game. That's why it can be more annoying when someone plays slow on every hand.
Making the table-cap lower at LHE would be a solution imo. Although it wouldn't solve everything.
I'm not sure how the table-cap works either. Is it the average time for every decision, or the time of a decision when playing X tables that counts?
Since LHE just doesn't always have a lot of tables running, the number of tables someone plays can vary a decent amount.
Maybe this is something players themself can reflect upon? Maybe people think twice when they know what their average time is, and what the stake average is?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MatosMaize View Post
I do seat select, but when I open the table I always hit the "R" letter on my reserved seat. Then "no" if I don't like this seat. As soon as I hit "no", next player in line can take this seat.
This doesn't work when you have auto-buyin on. (or some other setting, dunno)
When I click 'R', there's no pop-up, I'm just seated.
So when I don't want to join I just hit 'leave'.

Wouldn't it be possible to get a time limit to enter the waiting list for a table after you declined a seat at the same table?
I do think everybody is overrating how fish see this. Most of the time there's a table they can join quickly. A lot of people on the waiting list isn't really weird either, I just opened the NL lobby, and see an 18-man waiting list.
I think we need to view this as an unethical problem.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:23 AM   #156
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skillgambler View Post
who are those slow players?
Grabaz is the worst of the worst of the worst

Spidey_85 is absurdly slow and likely does it on purpose considering he manages to grab the Jesus seat 90+% of the time

Those 2 just absolutely kill everyone's hands/hr... if they are both on, you just want to be shot in the head. And they both put in tons of volume.

Dannstar is pretty bad.

I have days where I am actually pretty slow, but I do feel bad about it and try to do my best to stop doing it. Like when I first got to Van last month, I was new to multi-siting and it just really slowed me down. Many players are much faster than me. Plenty of SNE grinders such as SlickDickey and Chezlaw play very fast.




Steve's response is just absolutely infuriating and I need to get some sleep, so I will wait til another time to respond.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:15 PM   #157
Abso
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Spidey models after piranha right? They both take time on every decision to balance it out. It can certainly be frustrating.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:21 PM   #158
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

So really not much is going to get done despite vast community support. All regs here see it as a problem and these problems affect recs even more. Therefore they must want change more then us.

As per the promotion please post it here when it starts as I don't even look at the LHE lobby anymore.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:07 PM   #159
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

i dont undertand why you dont implement a wait list cap. even something silly like 10 max to start. and if a player doesnt take a seat when its their turn, no waiting that table for 5mins. this seems like a no brainer that wouldnt negatively effect anyone. try it, and i bet it would make the games better and player happier. then you'll be wondering why you didnt make 3 cap 20min wait.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:14 AM   #160
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
So really not much is going to get done despite vast community support. All regs here see it as a problem and these problems affect recs even more. Therefore they must want change more then us.

As per the promotion please post it here when it starts as I don't even look at the LHE lobby anymore.
quit trying to speak for everyone. Vast community support my ass. I already posted that the things you complain about don't make that big of a difference. This whole thread is taking crazy pills or something.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:28 AM   #161
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryptamean View Post
quit trying to speak for everyone. Vast community support my ass. I already posted that the things you complain about don't make that big of a difference. This whole thread is taking crazy pills or something.
You don't see your own contradiction?

I agree that I've become a bit frustrated. But nothing has been done for LHE and it has suffered a slow death since BF. Stars reps can see some of the suggestions that many of us would like implemented yet have failed to do anything.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:58 AM   #162
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

the reason they haven't done much is because your suggestions wouldn't make a difference.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:54 AM   #163
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Good to see Airbag stop bumhunting. Fifaliga is still doing it and some new ones have started at 3/6 2/4 - xzerox, craa. Paul Openfoild, wakeup and Ilikeambien are big offenders.
They should be made wait in the HU tables as they have no intention of playing full games, except perhaps craa.
I for one have joined another site all because of these guys not playing me.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:07 AM   #164
piranha
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Steve,

How can the seat assignments on Poker Stars not be random at this point? What are you guys doing to fix this?

Also, there is a player sitting every day alone at a table from 10/20 to 1000/2000. He picks the seat so that he gets the button every time the game starts and very rarely plays more than two orbits. So what happens is he plays 12 hands on average, 1 is the big blind, 1 is the small blind, and the other 10 hands are non-blind positions. This is stealing from the other players and is hugely profitable. Is there something that can be done about this?
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:51 AM   #165
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
This doesn't work when you have auto-buyin on. (or some other setting, dunno)
When I click 'R', there's no pop-up, I'm just seated.
So when I don't want to join I just hit 'leave'.
It actually works...
Click with RIGHT mouse button on R and pop-up will appear, even though you have auto-buyin on.
And then click No.

I'm constantly on waiting lists, but at least I act quickly
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:30 PM   #166
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

1. I'm shocked no one is talking about adding 15/30 - 1/2k hu tables. It would solve the problem with regs waiting only for HU and make the lobby more clear.
2. +1 to unguarded bitching about slow regs, but rly not sure if anything can be done about that
3. Reduce the number of 6max and FR tables you can open to, for instance, 5 for each stake (not taking into account those where at least 2 players are seated) so that regs don't open million tables and the lobby can look more friendly
4. Get rid of table starters because they work awfully plus a lot of retarded regs haven't figured out yet that it's nonsense to use them and just litter the lobby
5. Track all the dodgers mentioned by detective Tp like jamadharma (I think he's the one Tp is talking about) who freeroll their hands when the table opens without posting the blinds.

Debilne_ucho
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:48 PM   #167
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Make an option for us recreational players to be seated in some type of random order seating arrangement so bumhunters cant constantly be looking for us taking the fun out of the game.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:17 AM   #168
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entusiowe_ucho View Post
1. I'm shocked no one is talking about adding 15/30 - 1/2k hu tables. It would solve the problem with regs waiting only for HU and make the lobby more clear.
2. +1 to unguarded bitching about slow regs, but rly not sure if anything can be done about that
3. Reduce the number of 6max and FR tables you can open to, for instance, 5 for each stake (not taking into account those where at least 2 players are seated) so that regs don't open million tables and the lobby can look more friendly
4. Get rid of table starters because they work awfully plus a lot of retarded regs haven't figured out yet that it's nonsense to use them and just litter the lobby
5. Track all the dodgers mentioned by detective Tp like jamadharma (I think he's the one Tp is talking about) who freeroll their hands when the table opens without posting the blinds.

Debilne_ucho
number 1 is only good with number 2 together. regs are greedy in general. have you seem regs that already opening all the huhu table and then sit at the same 1/2-10/20 6 max/fr.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:23 AM   #169
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entusiowe_ucho View Post
5. Track all the dodgers mentioned by detective Tp like jamadharma (I think he's the one Tp is talking about) who freeroll their hands when the table opens without posting the blinds.

Debilne_ucho
Yep I just started a thread in highstakes about him. Desktop is another offender. Both are essentially stealing money from regulars and recreational players from limits 10/20 and up. I've reported Desktop to PokerStars and nothing was done. I'm hoping the thread in highstakes wakes people up to what's going on. It's pretty disgusting that someone who plays 1000/2000 is very likely stealing blinds from people at 10/20
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:12 AM   #170
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

also tilting how often jama is afk (at least I assume so, willing to give benefit of doubt)
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:35 AM   #171
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Yeah he and Desktop time out their buttons regularly. This is also something Stars should be looking into to. If he's raising 50% on the button but raising 75% of the time he actually plays at the table he's starting, there's a problem.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:05 AM   #172
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by piranha View Post
Yep I just started a thread in highstakes about him. Desktop is another offender. Both are essentially stealing money from regulars and recreational players from limits 10/20 and up. I've reported Desktop to PokerStars and nothing was done. I'm hoping the thread in highstakes wakes people up to what's going on. It's pretty disgusting that someone who plays 1000/2000 is very likely stealing blinds from people at 10/20
Have you reported him multiple times?
Quote:
Players may send in multiple complaints about the same player prior to the first complaint being reviewed and acted upon. Once we warn the offending player, we would need an additional incident after that point in order to take action.
Also, make it easy on them, give a link to your topic
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...harma-1329932/
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:38 AM   #173
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

I always thought that seat assignment is random by default. Never paid attention.
I'm pretty sure ppl are using this on smaller limits too, like 2/4 - 5/10.

Btw, which seat is that?
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:23 AM   #174
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
I always thought that seat assignment is random by default. Never paid attention.
I'm pretty sure ppl are using this on smaller limits too, like 2/4 - 5/10.

Btw, which seat is that?
There is a players named joshbradford or something like that who was the worst ever. His winrate was something like 6 BB/100 because he exploited this so hard at 2/4-3/6. He didn't even care if he Jesus seated the 3 worst players on the site... he would take his free hands, rinse, and repeat no matter what.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:42 AM   #175
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
Slow Players

We do currently analyze the playing speed of every player on the site once a month and adjust the Table Cap of players who act very quickly and very slowly who play a large number of tables on average.

This will naturally only affect players who play a large number of tables as we have generally thought of as the cause of the bulk of the slow play issues, but from what some of you have said in this thread, maybe that isn't as much the case in LHE.

Making any changes to table speed is not a decision we would take lightly, and we very recently changed the speed of the vast majority of our tables. Any loss of decision time has historically been loudly complained about in the forums, but if a large enough group of people think there is too much time to act in our Limit Hold’em games at present, we will look into the issue.
I am not asking for a change in table speed... I think it is perfect right now.

But I do ask for you to understand that # of tables played is only one factor in how slow someone plays. Some people do it on purpose. Some people are playing on Stars, Fullt Tilt, Party, Ipoker, and others at the same time... so they may only have 2 Stars tables open, but are playing 6+ games total. Some people are multi-tasking... watching a movie, chatting with friends in other windows, surfing the web, etc. and this makes them play really slow. I really wish you would focus on just general slowness instead of # of tables.

For example, if your data shows that an LHE player averages 10 seconds/move (completely in this form of poker), warn them and discipline them if they continue regardless of how many tables they play. And of course, you can always be more lenient or even just let it slide if it is an extremely low volume player or someone new to the site, since they may simply need more time than the rest of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
Waiting Lists

We don't currently have any plans to change waiting list behavior, but as we are hearing many more complaints these days, we're starting to look at options.

Any descriptions of specific problems you see (as some of you have done already) are always very helpful, as are suggestions for changes.

We are not likely to add additional manual checks of sitting out behavior over and above what we have already implemented, but we are open to software solutions that address any widespread issues.

In general, we greatly prefer software solutions that prevent the issue from occurring rather than retroactively punishing players for negative behavior after the fact. This is both because of resource issues and because it’s a much better customer experience for all involved, including offending parties and their opponents.
I think it would be awesome if there were a very obvious "decline seat" button we could click on a table while the seat is still in "reserved" status for us. Most players would be polite enough to hit this button if it existed. As it currently stands, declining the seat is extremely awkward/slow and most of us have to skip the process if we are busy at other tables.

Something like this would make you guys more money, speed up waitlists, and make the players a lot happier.
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