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Old 02-12-2013, 03:55 AM   #26
Rooksx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
Hmm... Would something like timebank be good? For the tables that you sitout ofc.
Where a timebank could be useful is where everyone (or all but one person) at the table is sitting out. Say once that happens, time starts to countdown. If there's no action after time runs out, all players sitting out are kicked.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:24 AM   #27
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

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Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
I don't like your attitude ITT... based on your last "**** you, I don't care" post, let's just make it 3 players doing whatever the **** this thread is about.
I mean, I am doing something very close to what he described, I don't deny it. I'm not doing it "maliciously" and I will stop without protest if Stars alters their policy on it.

At the moment though, I can't really play 4 different games at once, so I do have to quit games all the time... and closing the tables before anyone sits is just forgoing a freeroll of sorts.
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Old 02-13-2013, 12:19 AM   #28
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

The number one thing that needs to stop is the 15+ tables with one reg sitting at them. I do think this would affect recreational players' decision to play FL and it would be very easy for Stars to put an end to it. It would be a good rule for all games if a max number of tables could be opened where there is no action. I also think it's a joke how many people sit and wait at hu tables, but I'm not sure anything can be done about that.

I'm not sure where to draw the line between bum hunting and game selection, but the latter is a necessary part of winning at FL. I don't anything can, or should be done to prevent players from looking for good games. If the rake is lowered to the point where I can afford to play at tables with all regs I would be happy to do so, and I would play a lot more hands.

FL is unique cause position on the fish is so important, and because the site makes so much of the rake. It's also probably the game found in the highest % of casinos around the world on avg (just from my experience, I could be wrong) And it should be most inviting to beginning players, cause it's not as threatening when you can't lose your whole stack in one hand. So I don't think it's unreasonable that special attention be paid to saving FL online.

Rake at 5/T is ridiculous, it's pretty much the same as 2/4. This has got to be the worst rake trap of any game/level on the site; and hurting the high stakes games, as the stepping stone from the low stakes.

Last edited by pg_780; 02-13-2013 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:20 AM   #29
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_780 View Post
Rake at 5/T is ridiculous, it's pretty much the same as 2/4. This has got to be the worst rake trap of any game/level on the site; and hurting the high stakes games, as the stepping stone from the low stakes.

As a frame of reference:

1/2 to 2/4= 50% decrease
2/4 to 5/T = negligible
5/T to T/20= 50% decease
T/20 to 15/30= 33% decrease

Why???
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Old 02-13-2013, 09:50 AM   #30
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_780 View Post
Rake at 5/T is ridiculous, it's pretty much the same as 2/4. This has got to be the worst rake trap of any game/level on the site; and hurting the high stakes games, as the stepping stone from the low stakes.
Not really disagreeing with you that rake is too high at lowstakes, but for this example PS could argue that the reason why there is little different between 2/4 and 5/T is because rake at 2/4 (and 3/6 for that matter) is lower than basically any other site. While for 5/T+ it is closer to the industry standard.

Just worth mentioning i think as this is probably how PS see it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:13 PM   #31
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Ya I'm sure that's their argument. Although the low rake at 2/4 could also be called a business model: Volume over profit margin. And since 95% of small stakes LHE grinders are trapped there, chasing volume, the games are way tougher. I realize I'm kind of contradicting myself...

But I stand by my point that 5/T rake is relatively ludicrous and it's reflected by the lack of action at that level. I don't understand their reasoning.

One more thing, I think all games should use a 1/2 blind structure. 1/3 at $3/6 sucks, especially.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:18 AM   #32
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_780 View Post
Ya I'm sure that's their argument. Although the low rake at 2/4 could also be called a business model: Volume over profit margin. And since 95% of small stakes LHE grinders are trapped there, chasing volume, the games are way tougher. I realize I'm kind of contradicting myself...

But I stand by my point that 5/T rake is relatively ludicrous and it's reflected by the lack of action at that level. I don't understand their reasoning.

One more thing, I think all games should use a 1/2 blind structure. 1/3 at $3/6 sucks, especially.
I've tried to lobby for this change and Pokerstars said they would be open to it if enough regs would like it. I hate grinding 2-4 and 3-6 at the same times and having to account for the blind structure and adjust my range based on what table I'm sitting at. That's why I stick with 2-4 and don't play 3-6 as much.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:34 AM   #33
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

These bumhunters really piss me off. They never play me. I'm sick of joining tables where they are the only one sitting then they immediately leave or sit out. I wrote to stars giving the names - FiSHPyles, Gasbag88 and pimper22 (not real names), but they said that basically they can't do anything. The 3 players were sitting alone across 5 levels and at about 10 tables each. It really affects tables starting.
Not only is it immoral, it's against the rules :-

In general players are expected to be seated with the purpose of playing
At tables with more than two seats:
It is acceptable to be seated but occasionally deny action in certain circumstances, such as being seated to help start a new ring game but not wanting to play heads-up.
It is not acceptable to remain sitting out at a table (especially an active one) waiting for one of only a few preferred opponents to arrive or sit in.
In general, seated players are expected to accept action much more often than they refuse it.

Last edited by ChawkDee; 02-14-2013 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:27 PM   #34
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Last night I counted 11 tables with 1 player sitting and 6 tables running with an avg. of 6 players per waitlist at the 2-4 level. None of the players sitting will give me action or they would just grime me for 1 hand.

I can only imagine how scary that lobby looks for recreationals giving LHE a try.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:07 AM   #35
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChawkDee View Post
In general players are expected to be seated with the purpose of playing
At tables with more than two seats:
It is acceptable to be seated but occasionally deny action in certain circumstances, such as being seated to help start a new ring game but not wanting to play heads-up.
It is not acceptable to remain sitting out at a table (especially an active one) waiting for one of only a few preferred opponents to arrive or sit in.
In general, seated players are expected to accept action much more often than they refuse it.
The way these rules are written is a major problem because they aren't that enforceable. Like people can just abuse them at will and freeroll on the fact that (1) they will have to first be reported and (2) Stars will have to make a ruling against them, and probably only give a warning for first offense. Then the rule anglers just move to the gray area, where enforcement is not so clear (like the play 2 orbits instead of leave before bb crowd).

The last rule is especially weird. You are expected to give much more (??) action than you decline, but it doesn't say how much action you are expected to give (2 hands, 20 hands, 100 hands?). It seems more like a guideline than a rule.

Last edited by RonMexico; 02-15-2013 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:08 AM   #36
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Why can't they just institute a max # of empty tables? Incredibly simple and fair. Casinos don't let you open a table and just sit there, waiting for a fish to come but refusing to play otherwise. Plus there are already hu tables where you can do that.

Are we seeing any of this, Stars?
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:19 AM   #37
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_780 View Post
Are we seeing any of this, Stars?
In before the... Stars open a thread in LHE section about fixing ratholing and shortstacking
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:27 PM   #38
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
In before the... Stars open a thread in LHE section about fixing ratholing and shortstacking
I must have missed that gem. Link?

And what PG said a max of 3-5 empty/1 player seated tables should do just fine imo.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:52 PM   #39
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

why just not limit the starting table or HU table to 1 per level ( so it would make 3 table (FR,6max and HU).
i think some sites doing this tho i am not sure.

one thing for sure tho, when u sit at a table, u should be expect to play 1 full round or at least pay both blind before leaving the table , maybe not FR but 6max or HU for sure.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:48 PM   #40
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
I must have missed that gem. Link?

And what PG said a max of 3-5 empty/1 player seated tables should do just fine imo.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/53...games-1209621/
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:49 PM   #41
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
I must have missed that gem. Link?

And what PG said a max of 3-5 empty/1 player seated tables should do just fine imo.
How could you missed it?
Oh, maybe because it was opened in "Medium Stakes" subforum and almost no one reads that :P
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/53...games-1209621/

Also thread for feedback about changing time bank limits was also opened only in High Stakes Limit forum.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:13 PM   #42
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Thanks for the link guys. Big sigh obv.

PlsFold did bring up several good points in his OP and although some of us here currently angle around a few of the points I think most would agree that if some policies were to change we'd be happy to comply with the rule changes.

Recreationals and newcomers to LHE would likely want all of his suggestions implimented. As a community this is the most important thing and we have to make some concessions to accomodate recs as they are the the raft for us while we drown on this sinking ship.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:05 PM   #43
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
why just not limit the starting table or HU table to 1 per level ( so it would make 3 table (FR,6max and HU).
i think some sites doing this tho i am not sure.

one thing for sure tho, when u sit at a table, u should be expect to play 1 full round or at least pay both blind before leaving the table , maybe not FR but 6max or HU for sure.
There are HU tables, there is no reason for 10 tables with 1 seated who refuses to give action thus does not start games. 1 starting table per level and a new one does not get created until at least 3 are seated and a game is running. Throw in some benefit for game starting similar to how FTP offers bonus points for short handed tables.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:34 AM   #44
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

sinsadir sitting at 4 $2/4's and 3 $3/6's right now. He plays the button then leaves.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:07 PM   #45
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Have you guys noticed a massive decrease in tables running over the past few weeks?

There is only 6 tables of 6 max at the 2-4 level running right now. Even a few months ago there would be 12.

Is it peoples winrates are decreasing and regs are leaving? Did a bunch of people get banned? I don't know what the issue is of late but I like to log in and play 12 tables and right now Stars can't provide that even.

Time for a LHE Promo???
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:32 AM   #46
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Since January, my hands per hour decreased for 19%, same with VPPs/hour.
Quite significant.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:53 AM   #47
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
Since January, my hands per hour decreased for 19%, same with VPPs/hour.
Quite significant.
Is that due to you playing less tables then usual due to lack of games?

Or is it because the games are more reg filled then ever and regs take too long to play hands due to mass multitabling?

I too seem to have found that I'm not getting anywhere close to the amount of hands per hour... mainly due to slow players at the tables (other regs).
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:16 AM   #48
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Due to lack of (good) games.
Not sure about your regs argument, tho. We all know that December is the slowest month of all, and my hands/hour was 10% bigger than currently in February.
I mean, not much of a sample, but still

I guess it could be a mixture of both.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:46 PM   #49
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
Have you guys noticed a massive decrease in tables running over the past few weeks?

There is only 6 tables of 6 max at the 2-4 level running right now. Even a few months ago there would be 12.

Is it peoples winrates are decreasing and regs are leaving? Did a bunch of people get banned? I don't know what the issue is of late but I like to log in and play 12 tables and right now Stars can't provide that even.

Time for a LHE Promo???
It depends a lot on what time of the day your playing too. For me, peek hours are around 12-7pm EST time, or 9am-4pm Pst. Past that the games definitely start to decrease. I've found the quality to still be about the same (a lot of regs quit by then too) but there are just less tables running.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:26 PM   #50
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of LHE cash games!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slide View Post
It depends a lot on what time of the day your playing too. For me, peek hours are around 12-7pm EST time, or 9am-4pm Pst. Past that the games definitely start to decrease. I've found the quality to still be about the same (a lot of regs quit by then too) but there are just less tables running.

I find the games to be softer when there are only 4 to 8 tables running. Usually only 1 or 2 regs sitting the games at that point, and I dont feel like i have to table/seat select very much.
I'm probably still the big fish at these games tho :P.
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