I have played on a bunch of table-starter tables, never had that problem

How on earth could you come to a conclusion that getting rid of systematic cheaters are making things worse? This change is just great!

Youre right about the waitlists though. LHE shouldnt be offering them as they are only used for bumhunting.

Other than that and the old button problem at starting tables I think games are great.

I don't think giving seats to the players with the best scripts or people who maniacally watch the lobby is a good alternative.

PS steve

why does the software close a table with 2 players sitting after 1 of the players has busted and is sitting out? on the other table, a lone player sitting gets to keep his/her table. if a hu game was going, and someone busts or sits out for a rest break, shouldnt that table be given priority given that play has actually occurred?

PokerStars Nick i meant.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=227

it looks really bad doesnt it.

random newbie sits and busts. or sits out to take a piss. comes back and the table no longer exists. EVEN THOUGH SOMEONE WAS WAITING...

this weird thing happen to me recently where a 2 fish sat out to take what genuinely looked like a drink/smoke/toilet break or something. fish #3 doesnt want HU, so the table is forcibly closed. WTF

As I said before, the alternative looks even weirder.

I actually like the fact the table closes. It used to be that the fish came back seeing everyone sitting out or everyone left. Now the tables is closed due to inactivity. A lot of them will think it has to do with them not being back in time, and they personally got kicked off.

Why?

because starting to play shouldn't be a mission.
Most players will be running scripts to join tables which makes it basically a global waitinglist but with variance in it (the script that updates the table the fastest would win). It would also be almost impossible for any random player to join a table, since it will be instantly taken by a reg.
It also doesn't change a lot. People will cancel seats just like they are now.

I think overall that things are better now than before. The lobby looks cleaner and is more inviting to the recreational player than 10+ tables with 1 player waiting to play HU.

Seat cancelling I don't think is too big of a deal. There are just not enough empty seats at the tables, so by default a lot of people are just joining all the games and seeing what seats open up and then deciding later on whether to take it when it becomes available. It's pretty funny though to get to a full table and 4 of the seats have an R sign on them.

I don't have a problem with players who aggressively lobby hunt. I view it somewhat as a skill as well as something that requires a certain amount of your playing focus/energy. If you want to focus 50% of your attention on the lobby and only 50% to playing, rather than say 10% to the lobby and 90% to playing, I think you should be allowed to make that choice.

I do have issue with the fact that players are allowed to use seating & waitlist scripts. Given I view seat/table selection as a skill and something that requires some focus/energy from a player, I think allowing scripts is giving players who use them an unfair advantage, enabling them to focus solely on table play. I think its bordering close to the issue of bot play, allowing the computer to make decisions & actions for the player.

***

I don't see how we could possibly remove waiting lists. We need an environment that encourages recreational players to sit down, not one that discourages it. By removing wait lists, your essentially giving recreational players the option to play at only one table, most likely heads up against a regular. Even if these rec players were willing to wait, by removing wait lists, you're forcing them to just sit there and twiddle their thumbs while they wait, rather get on a list and allowing them to do something while they wait. In this scenario, I think most rec players will likely just move on to something else rather than sit there and twiddle their thumbs. If this happens even in a couple times to a player, I imagine they would likely just give up on finding a LHE table altogether.

I wasn't really asking for anything to be changed and I like waiting lists in general. I think the current state of things is pretty decent.

G1lius' explanation is fairly close to our line of reasoning for implementing it the way we have.

We do have additional improvements in the pipeline that mitigate some of those concerns, and this is specifically a feature I'm currently looking into improving.

This is also related to one of the reasons we decided to implement the feature this way as we didn't want to inadvertently reward people for something that's against our rules.

Is there anyway to prevent posting Big blind when uncreational player sits out and you automatically post Big blind and the whole table sits out and session length is like two orbits.. I have lost played zillion more Big blind than buttons in stars.. Anyone have script to this problem or something

Make all tables zoom??

That's the only thing that comes to mind to dodge this problem. Although that would cause other problems for LHE. It's one of those things that if you don't sit out after your button the next hand the other guy will likely do it to you.

I like all of this.

Also, just a shout out to Stars for cleaning up the lobby. It looks dramatically better. We usually only complain about things you don't do, so good job on this one.

No waiting lists is just an awful idea. And sorry to break it to you but "bum hunting" is now called "lobby skills" and its part of the game.

I don't even think it looks bad to have ppl waiting. It makes it look like the action is good and seats are in high demand

Sorry to break it to you but I havent read anything about poker lingo the final edition and a google search showed up empty. Could you please provide a link?

Until then I will just stick to the word bumhunting. There are a lot of great less than a year old threads about bumhunting on this very forum, latest pokerstars update partly about bumhunting here http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...013-a-1388176/.

Im not sure how widespread scripting is. I can only think of two players who grabs jesus seats at starting tables inhumanly fast while there might be a hundred who are botting waitlists. As I see it, the latter is the bigger issue, also because it seems that more and more are using waitlist bots.

What about all the seats almost no regs want that takes 5 or more minutes before all of the waitlist botters have declined it, some even twice before seat gets freely available? And how many recreationals do you see on waitlists? I see very few. Likely because rec players aren't interested in joining waitlists.

@Pokerstars Nick

When your new client is released, please have fixed on top or as default when you click holdem tab. It is great for games that fixed is the default option.

Also, do you have any plans of improving the greatly flawed table dealing mechanism? The old B2B network had the best mechanism I have seen. When a game was set to start the players had to press an 'Im ready'-button before a high card for button was dealt.

I wasn't talking about the current state, just what would happen if waitinglists where to be gone.
I'm surely not a fan of the waitlist botting, but removing the waitinglists doesn't seem like the good answer.

Lobby skills are your ability to scroll through the lobby and find new (good) games, manage waitlists and decide on a seat when its offered. (It's kind of implied you're doing these things while also playing multiple tables) These things play a pretty big role in EV, and as slide mentioned, its a player's decision how much in-game attentiveness they want to sacrifice to monitor the lobby.

It's impossible to make +BB without a "bum" at the table, and the more bums, the more $ you make. So am I supposed to pretend I don't know this and not constantly search for the best games--Letting good seats pass up to other players once in a while in the spirit of sportsmanship? Everyone out there is trying to get good seats, the player with the best lobby skills will get more of them. I don't see whats wrong with that, frankly:

Alls fair in love, war and bumhunting

If there were a global waitlist, ppl would just constantly recycle down to the bottom when the seat wasn't good. Which looks much worse than a bunch of waitlists imo. At least lobby skills are a skill, and detract from in game ev. Also, I do see recs on waitlists actually. They're prob looking at avg pot size, not the specific players at the table. But 99% of recs are aware that you'd prefer to play against less skilled opponents. Why deny this fact?

I didn't know ppl were using bots to seat select, which I obvs would not agree with. But I'd prob prefer my own lobby skills anyways.

Only loser nvgtards use the word "bumhunting"

Hello, world.
Please help, guys.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...e-help-1398763

my only complaint is that when it forces a table close you have to click like 2 or three buttons to get rid of the damn table. This is a pain when you are playing 12 tables and can't get to your action table because you have to get a zillion server closed table notices. How about just close the table for us and not tell us about it 3 times.

Just a warning to other regarding Wasulator fake table starting stealing btn. I already sent an email to stars. He basically been doing this a lot for example. clearly you can see he ask "HU?" and the reg will click back in and after the hand he instant sit out. Please report him since this isn't the first nor last time he will do it.

PokerStars Hand #109057130549: Hold'em Limit ($10/$20 USD) - 2013/12/25 7:33:26 ET
Table 'Ueta II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 4: Wadsulator ($305 in chips)
Seat 6: ihsan89 ($423 in chips)
Wadsulator: posts small blind $5
ihsan89: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
SashaYuvelir leaves the table
Wadsulator said, "HU?"
Wadsulator: raises $10 to $20
ihsan89 said, "yes"
ihsan89: calls $10
*** FLOP *** [4c Th Ts]
ihsan89: checks
Wadsulator: bets $10
ihsan89: folds
Uncalled bet ($10) returned to Wadsulator
Wadsulator collected $39.50 from pot
Wadsulator: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $40 | Rake $0.50
Board [4c Th Ts]
Seat 4: Wadsulator (button) (small blind) collected ($39.50)
Seat 6: ihsan89 (big blind) folded on the Flop

PokerStars Hand #109057141995: Hold'em Limit ($10/$20 USD) - 2013/12/25 7:33:49 ET
Table 'Ueta II' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 6: ihsan89 ($403 in chips)
ihsan89: posts small blind $5
Wadsulator: is sitting out
Hand cancelled
*** SUMMARY ***
Seat 6: ihsan89 (button) collected ($0)