I am sure the guys that play 10/20+ limit for SNE a lot of them make money pre rakeback. they can play less table with high vpp/rake is smaller in BB plus huge fish sometime 50/100+ that donate. The problem with guys playing below 10/20 having to play more then 6 table average like 10 hours a day will break you down in the long run and you don't have time to improve you skill.

To make things clear: PS Steve is talking about post-rakeback winnings.

I understand Steve is talking about post rakeback earnings.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around a few things. I may be totally off based in my thinking and numbers, but he talked about that 4 or 5 times multiplier in comparing limit with NL.

I was asking about the 5/10 SNE player if there were any making profits before rakeback(I know those who play higher do make profit before rakeback (less hours, lower rake etc).

Doesn't 5/10 LHE (who mixes in 3/6 because of lack of tables) SNE who plays 6 tables play around the same hours to achieve SNE as a 1/2 NL player who 24 tables?

The upper ceiling a limit SNE can aim for is to break even while achieving SNE due to high rake and game conditions. (unless he/she moves up in stakes). I'm talking about the best of the best still playing.

Ive always assumed there are NL SNE's who play the same amount of hours s a limit SNE who make profit before rakeback. Yes they are playing more tables at a time, but generally playing the same amount of hours.

I'm just trying to understand how Steve is looking at the numbers and seeing what the upper ceiling is for both a NL 1/2 SNE and a limit 5/10 SNE.....since stars apparently feels they are around the same level. I am talking about the prerakeback thinking that both players will be adding on the same $105k (or whatever it is) at the end of the year to their winnings if they both hit SNE.

To make things more clear: Steve was talking about supernovas, not SNE's.
Which is, given the small amount of SNE's, normal to do.

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/prom...n-celebration/ ... great, nothing for us again.

Nothing specific true, even though they were insinuating that we will get something.
But, milestone hand promo is for all cash game players, so that's nice as always

All I need to do now is finally hit one of those :P

waitlist freerolling even happens at .25/.50, mostly ukrainians

Yeah, I somewhat disappointed as well. Not a surprise they're doing some heavy tournament promotions, but I'm surprised they're giving away an extra million in SNGs specifically and nothing else.

That said, the billion hand promos are still great promos for cash games players.

I've moved my play to another game format over the past 6 weeks or so. How have the games been lately in the 1-2 to 5-10 range?

Waitlisting freerolling at .25-.50? I wonder how low in stakes this problem is going to go.

What is waitlist freerolling?

It's joining every available waitlist possible and only accepting a seat if you have position against the absolute weakest players. Sort of like Bumhunting Heads up tables. This also causes the games to break as these people take the full minute to decide to take the seat or not.

This behaviour from Stars' perspective is perfectly acceptable.

Allowing players at Ring tables to deny Heads Up action and wait for a third player has been one of our Ring Game rules for over two years now. As we are removing players’ ability to sit out at non-dealing tables in the near future, it would actually take longer for us to change the rule and educate players on the rule change to the point where we would feel comfortable enforcing the rule manually.

Additionally, we are only comfortable changing this rule as a result of our Table Starters feature which allows players to start a new Ring table without having to play Heads Up without first sitting out at a new table.


Currently, when there is a choice to be made about which table to close, the oldest table is closed. In the near future, this will be changed to the table that most recently stopped dealing, and the reasoning behind that choice is mostly along the lines of G1lius’s post.

With the most recent client update, you should also see improved client messaging when you’re seated at a table that closes as a result of this feature.


As we stated before, we have an LHE only promotion coming up in the near future. In addition, LHE is as always included in the Milestone and Golden SNG promotions described at the above link.


Game Integrity and Player Reports

All players that have been directly mentioned in this thread or in a PM as partaking in abusive behavior have either been investigated or are currently being investigated.

While some of the behavior that has been complained about isn’t technically against the rules, it’s still good to hear about behavior that is generally felt to have crossed a line as that can influence future policy and feature changes.

Thank you to all players who took the time to notify us about angle shooters and rule violations.

Thx Nick for taking the time to help address some of our concerns.

I know Stars is against autofolding of hands, but consider how much time has been wasted waiting for multitablers to fold their 93o UTG or w/e hands they are never, ever playing in X position. It's probably more ridiculous in FR NLHE where dudes are folding 90+% of their hands in some spots but taking max time on every single decision.

It's not that bad. Besides, with autofolding to casual players it would appear like they're playing against bots.

^^ A very good suggestion.

^ The reason they won't implement this idea.

its a made up problem because some people have nothing to do besides complain

Yesterday I joined a waiting list on 10/20 table. It was 14 players deep. Around half an hour later, I got a seat at this table. And not only a seat, but THE seat

So yeah, sometimes you score even on freerolls :P

I don't understand this issue. You can auto-fold hands. All you have to do is select the table you plan to auto-fold and check the "fold to any action" box (I think that's the name of the box.) You can even hot-key this option.

Right, and that is one reason why I don't think it's as extreme of a change as it seems, but it's not exactly what I am talking about. I mean adding a software option to fold X range from Y position in Z game. For example, in LHE 9max UTG, you set up auto-fold to dump all of the trash you play 0% of the time.

Maybe this is a better implementation: You can set up the software so it will fold all of your trash sooner if you dont act (3 seconds?), but you'd still have the option to fold faster or actually play the hand. That way it saves time, doesn't look like an auto-folding bot script, and also doesn't fold you out of your best hands in cases where you actually need more time.

It would be interesting if Stars added up all of the time wasted from people taking extra time to fold hands that they literally play 0% of the time.

Ron, awful idea... this allows people who are either fish or huge tilt monkeys to keep themselves from spewing pre-flop. They can't make stupid pre-flop plays if it is auto-folding for them. Moronic plays are usually impulsive and instant... if they have to go and disable their auto-folds, that will often be enough time for them, to calm down.

It's the stupidest ****ing idea on the planet - fish will soon be downloading starting hand scripts from 'expert websites' and never play loose preflop ever again in their lives.

Hey man, don't be so shy... just tell us how you really feel.

If that is what concerns you, limit its functionality to only work when you are playing greater than X tables. But tbh, I would not be too worried about a 1-tabling fish taking the time to set up a fast fold feature, and you would allow the option to override. Maybe the fast fold cuts action time down to 5 seconds (?) for selected hands, so you still get the impulsive clickers who are unable to resist, but now I don't have to wait 20 seconds for an 18-tabling slimfast to fold 93o four times an orbit.

+1
Wouldn't use these words, but yeah.

There are better ways to stop slow multitablers.