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Old 05-17-2013, 08:28 PM   #226
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
I don't think it's a glitch. It would be weird if the player who wants to start a new game just randomly gets booted.
He should be playing at the table that isnt full instead of starting up a new one.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:57 AM   #227
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

The table might have been full when he joined.

I mean, say guy sits at 3 tables plus new one because all tables are full.
On another table play dies out, everyone leaves.
Suddenly the guy gets booted from his sitting table while there's a new/old empty table available. That doesn't make sense.
I presume you get some message with the reason for kicking you off the table, which people at the old table understand because their table just stopped playing.
What should be the message for the guy sitting? "you get kicked off the table because other people decided to stop playing"

I get why you don't want to give the advantage to the guy sitting, but it creates really weird situations.

edit: btw, assitoni if you read this, please stop your waitlist-joining program when you go afk. Thanks

Last edited by G1lius; 05-18-2013 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:03 PM   #228
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
The table might have been full when he joined.

I mean, say guy sits at 3 tables plus new one because all tables are full.
On another table play dies out, everyone leaves.
Suddenly the guy gets booted from his sitting table while there's a new/old empty table available. That doesn't make sense.
I presume you get some message with the reason for kicking you off the table, which people at the old table understand because their table just stopped playing.
What should be the message for the guy sitting? "you get kicked off the table because other people decided to stop playing"

I get why you don't want to give the advantage to the guy sitting, but it creates really weird situations.

edit: btw, assitoni if you read this, please stop your waitlist-joining program when you go afk. Thanks
As Nick already posted... just email Stars. I already did about him and he's still at it and Nick clearly stated in this thread that further action would be taken against multiple time offenders... so I'm curious if anything will be done about him.
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:44 PM   #229
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Is he actually doing something that is against the rules?
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:50 AM   #230
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Simple Software Solution: Change the VPP set up so that if you can quit and leave UTG after you fold and still get the points for that hand.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:24 AM   #231
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

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Originally Posted by Hero Protagonist View Post
Simple Software Solution: Change the VPP set up so that if you can quit and leave UTG after you fold and still get the points for that hand.
O M G plz... this would speed up waitlists a ton. Right now, everyone waits for the BB to go through them for the extra VPPs. Major software fail here.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:18 AM   #232
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

u dont get any vpps if u fold preflop anyways. i usually just wait till the end of the hand so i get a complete handhistory for the hand
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:21 AM   #233
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Skill, if you fold on the flop and then leave before the hand finishes, do you still get the VPPS? In the US, so I can't test.
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Old 05-19-2013, 05:45 AM   #234
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

No, you don't. Hand has to finish.
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:02 AM   #235
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
No, you don't. Hand has to finish.
But since VPPs are only awarded to those who contributed money in the pot the only way you'd be due any as if you open call-fold or raise-fold?
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:51 AM   #236
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
Skill, if you fold on the flop and then leave before the hand finishes, do you still get the VPPS? In the US, so I can't test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
No, you don't. Hand has to finish.
yeah this. i reccommend not folding before the river after u enter the hand utg
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:03 AM   #237
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

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Originally Posted by MSCHUMACHER View Post
But since VPPs are only awarded to those who contributed money in the pot the only way you'd be due any as if you open call-fold or raise-fold?
?

No need for any fancy moves, you only need to fold after the flop and play has to continue. Meaning there are more than 2 players involved.

Example. 3 players on the flop. Villain1 bets, you fold, villain2 calls.
If you close your table at this spot, you won't get any VPPs.
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Old 05-19-2013, 12:22 PM   #238
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Here's a Steve's quote from PokerStars Player Meetings Report

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
We didn't look at LHE for this meeting but we did note that PLO results were quite similar to a year ago, and we did look at LHE a year ago. LHE players were doing quite well with a high VIP status and not so well with low VIP status, with much of winnings coming from rewards. Much like PLO.

LHE winrates can be deceiving because they LOOK smaller when expressed relative to big blinds. When you multiply out to compare hourly winrate or winnings per hand in dollars compared to NL/PL games with similar typical buy-in amounts or bankroll requirements, the numbers are in line.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:17 PM   #239
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Either people here are winning more then I think, or NL guys win way less then I think.
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Old 05-19-2013, 03:38 PM   #240
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

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Originally Posted by G1lius View Post
What multiplier are you using for this? x4?
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:20 PM   #241
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
Player Communications 2
I realized this morning that I'd left one thing out of the section on player communications.

We did at one point have a special forum set up for communication with a panel of players who had signed NDAs. If players want us to reactivate this forum, we are happy to do so.

Our preference would be for the participants on the forum to be those who have been elected and attended player meetings in the past. We have been very pleased with the quality of discussion with player representatives thusfar and would be happy to continue it between meetings.

If there is a strong community desire for additional participants on the forum, we can discuss and consider this. One possible reason to want additional participants is to ensure maximum coverage of all of the different game types. My initial thought about this is that this may not be necessary, but if it is, the extra participants could perhaps be chosen by the other representatives.
IIRC, no LHE (expect Hood to some degree) was represented at the meetings, so that means no LHE reps are participating on this forum.
It would be great if we could get someone (or more) there.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:20 AM   #242
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
IIRC, no LHE (expect Hood to some degree) was represented at the meetings, so that means no LHE reps are participating on this forum.
It would be great if we could get someone (or more) there.
Stars is well aware of our concerns. I believe now that Stars is at the point where they are content to just let the game die if it must and will focus no effort on actively promoting it. Look at some of the very real complaints in this thread about individual players who are abusing the game. Has Stars done anything to these players? NO

IMO Stars is content to bleed this game dry and will invest no manpower to fixing the obvious problems that we have discussed over the past 3 years since the Furbean/Fua99 scandal and Black Friday. Both caused severe damage to LHE, both in FR which is now dead, and 6-max which is on it's last ropes.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:12 AM   #243
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Sect7G, I definitely wouldn't go that far. LHE is still a very profitable game for Stars. We play way more hands/hr than most games, for example. Also, I think most of our problems are very similar to the problems in other games. The main one that seems LHE specific is slow players... I think it is difficult for Stars employees who don't play LHE to understand how absurd it is for experienced pros to take more than a few seconds per move in this game.

They did try to promote it with HUHU promotional matches, but didn't get any interest. I honestly think they just don't understand how unreasonable their request was... 100/200+ and we don't get to know who our opponent is? There's just almost no way these days to win back your losses if you get crushed. And with bots/cheating being such a huge problem in LHE, you really need to make sure you can trust your opponent. I would definitely never play a 100/200+ HUHU match against a player who doesn't have a great reputation, and would prefer it to be against someone I kind of know.

I have played some HUHU matches against some very tough players, but I was 99% sure they were trustworthy and would never cheat against me.

Stars is in a tough spot... there's just no reason to think LHE will gain popularity right now. And it's hard to blame Stars... DC and Cardrunners have all but given up on LHE videos. LHE is still pretty popular in certain US casinos, but even there, it is slowing down a ton. In Vegas, it's down to just the Bellagio and has been for a long time now. It's going pretty strong in Cali, but not like it used to. East Coast, lol... almost dead from what I hear.

Bots are also a much bigger problem in LHE than big bet games, which everyone hates.

It's really on the top LHE players to promote the game somehow. I do not consider myself top tier anymore, but if I can get back into the top tier, I am seriously considering making a major effort to promote both myself and LHE... not for profit, but for the good of my favorite game. LHE is pure awesome, but we just aren't bringing in new players. Doing so will be tough... LHE sucks for tourneys. We don't have the sexiness of all-ins. I think the best we can do is try to play up the much faster pace, looser play, and aggressiveness of the game. And of course, some fun personalities would be nice if we can somehow get people to pay attention to us.

It really does seem like NL players are much better at realizing how important it is to show people their personality and promote the games a bit. I mean look at Jungleman... not a very entertaining guy, and I am sure he knows it. But at least he tries. And it works... he is actually so boring and lethargic during his interviews that it becomes incredibly entertaining and generates a lot of attention.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:54 AM   #244
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve View Post
Per Nick: FL *Big Bet* size of either 4x or 5x the *Big Blind* size of the NL/PL stake depending on how the specific stakes we offer lined up.
Seems about right.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:46 AM   #245
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

So an average 5/10 Supernova is doing about the same as an average NL200 Supernova?
That can't be right?
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:16 AM   #246
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

They must be including NL shortstackers in that, most of them breakeven or lose pre-rakeback so will skew the figures.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:22 PM   #247
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

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Originally Posted by CoreySteel View Post
So an average 5/10 Supernova is doing about the same as an average NL200 Supernova?
That can't be right?
That's what I thought, but it's hard to argue against it when you don't have the numbers.
Maybe it's profit/table they look at, but other then that it's hard to believe indeed.

edit: we might have relatively more SNE's, which will bring profits for LHE way up.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:32 PM   #248
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Maybe.

+ There are like 5 tables on 5/10 atm, and 50 of NL200
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:16 PM   #249
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerstars Steve
LHE winrates can be deceiving because they LOOK smaller when expressed relative to big blinds. When you multiply out to compare hourly winrate or winnings per hand in dollars compared to NL/PL games with similar typical buy-in amounts or bankroll requirements, the numbers are in line.
I'm curious how you calculated hourly or if its an actual statistic you keep track of.

Winnings Per/Hand (even with a multiplier) doesn't seem like a fair metric. Its pretty obvious NLHE grinders can grind more hands per hour than LHE players (I would guess by a pretty high margin, but it would just be a guess.)
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:32 PM   #250
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Re: Discussion regarding the state of PokerStars LHE cash games! (PokerStars Feedback)

There can't be very many (if any) Supernova elites who are making money at the tables prerakeback, and I assume there has to be quite a few NL200 players who are making money pre rakeback. I'm I totally off based in those assumptions?
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