SB is 47/9 over 100 hands
BB is 56/7 over 85 hands


Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BTN with T T
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls

Flop: (6 SB) 6 5 8 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls

Turn: (6 BB) 2 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB calls, Hero calls

River: (12 BB) 5 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero

3 bet turn, barrel

you has an over pair

easy, easy river bet

At my 2/4 tables, it seems that when a guy cold-calls the flop and then checkraises an apparent blank on the turn, he can beat one pair. So I probably wouldn't 3-bet the turn either.

It surprises me that Villain might be scared of the flush/house on the river, but I suppose it's possible. Or maybe he's got, like, 6c2c and he can't beat 8x anymore. The flush/house fear and the counterfeited hands seem like the two most straightforward explanations for the river check. Or maybe he's now reevaluating his hand strength. Or maybe he's boated up and that inspired another checkraise. Maybe he liked his 87 on the turn but he was counting on improvement.

I'd probably bet at the table, particularly with the third guy in. But whatever I did, I'd also probably second-guess myself for the next fifteen minutes if it turned out I was wrong.

These out-of-tempo river checks are hard to figure out sometimes. And, against me, it seems like they're sexies more often than one might expect just from reading the strat threads here. But that could be my memory playing tricks on me, since, after all, the times I get sexied or screwplayed tend to stick with me more than the more mundane times when I bet for value and get called and my hand is good.

AFq would be useful here.

3 betting turn would be terrible.
On the river, you did just "suckout" on some of his 2 pairs, but 68 is about the only combo of such 2 pairs that makes sense. I think you will face a big hand here too often, but the 3d guy does provide some overlay.
River is close, turn not even remotely unless you've seen several instances of spew from the villain b4.

dont 3! the turn. he could easily be scared of a flush after bb takes 2 to the dome on the turn. check it back. youve only out run 86

I would value bet the river.

Somehow, I would have expected SB or BB to bet a better hand on this board.

Fire the river. Rarely will sb get tricky with a straight, fullhouse, etc.

3 betting the turn is spew. If there was a player to act behind us, then I could see 3betting to knock him out.

+1. What was your thinking on not 3 betting the turn?

why should hero 3! the Turn?
you guys just think that since there aren't that many combos we're behind sb must be fos?

i dont 3bet the turn cause our hand blows.

once he checks, i bet river

I am inclined to bet the river, after both villains show weakness. If SB has called pre with 34 (or 62) I'll just pack my bags and go home. The turn is trickier - obviously if the others are on draws, this is the place to get value from them.

However, I don't feel we have enough information on villain to raise the turn, as against many 47/9 types at 2/4 the SB raise is a monster. As somebody else has mentioned, we could really do with an aggression stat here.

Reading this again there is some lack of logic to my line. If they are on draws, they will just fold the river so we get nothing from our bet, and we would have been better 3 betting the turn. I just think without further info there is too high a chance that this turn raise is better than a pair.

strangely enough, i agree with everything thehip(!) said except for "our hand blows"

good post overall, just wanted to comment on the "if we had a better read we can 3bet the turn"

Im here to say, you can't 3 bet the turn vs. anyone (except chuck999 obv)


they know you have AA after PF/flop, and still take the "gimme your money" line on the turn. Honestly, I want to fold the turn, but I call down hoping for TP+draw or two pair. On the river, once he checks, he either has a boat and is going to c/r (we fold) or he has a straight and is a puss, or he has some pair/combo draw or counterfeit two pair that will call when we bet.

So you don't 3 bet the turn against two guys that are 50/10's?

What are they hanging around with? Against two players, there's a strong chance somebody has a five or a flush, or possibly a straight. But on the other hand, the SB river check is consistent with a slow-played 8 that now fears the paired board and the flush. And if the BB has a five or flush, the check is going to prompt him to bet and make sure more money goes in. So there's also a very good chance you are good.

They are rather passive. Bet-fold seems safe, and gets my vote. And if you don't want to fold, then don't bet.

what can i say, those guys scare the **** outa me when they check raise me on the turn

**** no man, 50-10's that call a PFR, take two to the face, and STILL check raise the turn have the nuts.


put it this way, if my only options are fold and 3bet the turn, I'm folding.

Now, I'm not folding irl since we have outs and sometimes have the best hand, but if the OP called the turn and folded the river or just flat folded the turn, I wouldnt' hate it.


3betting this turn is beyond awful

I think you are overstating when you say "beyond awful".

I normally go along with what you say Hip, and because SG agrees with you, your rationale has to mean something, but I just don't see it. I seem to run into this situation often at low stakes, and it is TPTK or some sort of weird draw. Maybe he has a monster, but we will find out if he caps the turn.

As played, I would bet this river. But if you don't 3! the turn, maybe our balls have been removed and we should just check the river and show down with the best hand to lose maximum value.

Agree to disagree sir.

Turn is a crying calldown and I don't need much imagination to see SB showing up with 43,a set or an overpair here. I really really doubt that this is a draw or just top pair or a combo of both.
I would always bet river though even if he still can show up with a scared 43

ZOMG OVERPAIR

i lean towards calling, not 3betting the turn, but theres no way i check this river once they both check

I would also 3 bet this turn close to never, would have to be against a pretty big spaz. Also how are we reacting to a 4 bet here? Calling and calling down ui, 3b folding, or folding river ui? All seem like pretty lousy options.

It seems like on the turn we are most afraid of SB, but shouldn't that shift to the BB on the river?

The reaction to a SB cap is a really good question. I would call a cap, then fold the river, which does sound ****ing terrible. Once it gets capped, there is no way my hand can be good anymore. You and Hip have a lot more poker experience than I do, so maybe I am looking at this all wrong. Against these two guys I would 3! most of the time. I guess I need to rethink that.

Because this is BTN VS Blinds, and these players know I am aggro, they are going to undervalue my hand, correct? I am guessing that Pope has been beating up on them in the blinds, because that is how he rolls. Those were my thoughts on why to 3! the turn. I seem to get shown A8 here a lot, even though they wait for the turn to raise. As Pope said, WTF does the BB have?

yeah, he sure played it like a flush draw. That is an sneaky (I would never check a flush here) check by him if he has the flush because he knows your aggro ass will bet it and the SB has to call one, then he can pop it and get you both to possibly call.

I am very interested to see the results of this hand. Were you first place or 3rd place in this hand?

Just for you

Results!!!