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Call with Ahi Call with Ahi

10-23-2013 , 07:49 PM
Button raises,, sb folds, I call BB with A4o. Villain is very good player and pretty balanced as well. He checks flop back 90% of time and cbets turn like 65% so pretty low. In flop I have 40% equity so I peel. Dont really have master plan for turn and river (should I at this point?). On turn board pairs so its clear c-c. I made I bit timing tell (thinking long) on flop so he might think I am on A hi. The river bring Q which is pretty bad looking card but I dont think he is cbettin turn with Qhi and I dont ever peel this turn with Q hi so quite a brick. I think he can valuebet here like ATo+. I come to this situation on river a lot and I have very much trouble finding balance calling these weak sd spots. I end up folding on river to cb 40% time overall which is too high, I quess I am just thinking that most player give up their bluffs in river so I safely can fold my worst Aces. What factors should I think deciding whether to call or not in this spot and if I call the turn should I always call the river If I call the turn.

Flop K 6 2 rb

check-bet-call

Turn 6d

check-bet-call

River Qs

check-bet-fold
10-24-2013 , 01:34 PM
He checks back flop 90% of the time?? Or did you mean he cbets flop 90%.

In general, we should have a plan for every street. If you want to be a super-pro, you would have a whole tree planned out. It's not very realistic though, and calling to re-evaluate is okay.

For the actual hand as played:

This board is very dry. this makes calling flop, calling turn very transparent -- the only hands we can call with are pairs and A-hi -- ie very showdown heavy. So, like you mentioned, it should be obvious to villain you have a calling hand and he should abandon bluffs. But, you still have to keep your opponent honest and call with some Ace-highs. --eg, if you are villain, and you have 89s, it might seem obvious villain has an Ace-high or better, but you might still bluff on the river.

You should also poinpoint where your threshold is for which Ace-high you will call with, and which you don't. According to TIPP, the strongest Ace-highs that you can't call, you should turn into bluffs and raise the river.


To make your play more difficult to read, I would suggest raising the flop more often on dry boards. We would put a lot of pressure on his hands that completely miss: A3o, TJo, 89s. He may even fold some hands! Assuming we flat everything pre, our continuing range will be stronger than his cbetting range, so it might be correct to x/raise 100% of our continuing range.

Other 2+2ers will point out A4o is kind of a bad candidate to x/r here, since we don't know if it's for value or as a bluff. I would still prefer to x/raise here, based on the texture of the board, and to avoid a really passive transparent line. On the flop, it's for value; on the turn, we also still have the option of donk-checking the turn! This basically returns us to the previous line, but after we have put an extra SB in while ahead, and confused our opponent.

Last edited by phunkphish; 10-24-2013 at 01:43 PM.
10-24-2013 , 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
He checks back flop 90% of the time?? Or did you mean he cbets flop 90%.
yea, he cbets 90%

Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
You should also poinpoint where your threshold is for which Ace-high you will call with, and which you don't. According to TIPP, the strongest Ace-highs that you can't call, you should turn into bluffs and raise the river.
I think this cannot be done until the board develops to river but yeah folding worst aces and calling best ones seems to be only option with this passive line. I cannot raise bluff on river at least on this hand because I dont represent anything but maybe AQo so that doesnt fit to every situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by phunkphish
To make your play more difficult to read, I would suggest raising the flop more often on dry boards. We would put a lot of pressure on his hands that completely miss: A3o, TJo, 89s. He may even fold some hands! Assuming we flat everything pre, our continuing range will be stronger than his cbetting range, so it might be correct to x/raise 100% of our continuing range.
This is good point. Maybe I should mix it up passive and aggressive line depending on villain. I really dont have turn donk check range in this situation unless scarecard comes (A) or if I give up a pure bluff. So maybe c-r, bet-call turn line with better aces, C-r bet-fold with the medicore Aces and with weakest give up and hope turn and river get checked trough. Does it make sense?

Do you mean it might be correct x-r 100% on dry boards or in every board if I flat all my hands BB.
10-25-2013 , 03:18 PM
You should have a c/r'ing range OTR. KQ, some 6's, maybe AA, AK, QQ. So, you need some c/r bluffs, which would be your best non-calling hands. Given that hand values rarely change from turn to river on this board, we should often be delaying our value raises from the turn to river, giving him an extra street to bluff.

In my experience with HU bots, check-raise and donk-check is somewhat common on dry flops (especially when holding A-hi). As I mentioned, it virtually dominates just calling on dry flops: we get an extra SB in when ahead, and return to the same state as just calling. The only way villain can exploit our c/r-donk line is to 3b us on the flop more. Only the very most advanced players will 3b us on the flop, in a balanced way. If you want to continue on the turn by b/c or b/f , that's up to you, but I'd strongly consider donk-checking with this particular hand.


--I think it might be good to x/r 100% of your continuing range, when the flop is dry with at least 2 low cards. i.e. raising all of the hands you would just call with.

      
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