How moronic, if it doesn't apply to you it doesn't matter. We're talking about women and kids, please. Let me eat cake right?

I guess I just don't see in an environment like a public school, it to be discriminatory to ask those with boy bits to use the boys room and those with girl bits to use the girls room.

What about the non transgender kids? Should a group of 14 year old girls be forced to shower with a 14 year old girl with a penis?

Ok, so that's a totally different argument.

There's lots wrong with it, but at least we can agree that "Because it will cost some money" isn't a good reason to avoid discriminating against people.

First off these are just guidelines for public schools to avoid discriminatory behavior against people wishing to express their true gender identity. Second you guys seem to discount how uncomfortable men's locker rooms can be to someone who identifies as female.

A brave new world is vastly more fun than 1984 or the other alternatives to world order.

This. Beyond LAS unsurprisingly just wanting to whine about the government like when he whined about not flying the confederate flag anymore, I question how many people blowing this off as "why don't the kids just suck it up" have interacted with or listened to people who have experienced this issue speak on the subject.

The purpose of a public school is to give the best education possible, not to make everyone happy. Should we lower standards so that all kids get an A? Should we take kids on the low end of the bell curve and just tell them to "suck it up" or just give them an A?

No. Hope this helps since it has zero to do with the subject of the thread

You were just worried about athletics. If all you care about is giving the best education possible, why do you care? Shouldn't we spend on that money on improving the average education?

What does this have to do with the topic? What are you proposing?

Erm...it's not a non-issue because it doesn't apply to me, it's a non-issue because it's a non-issue.

As in, the presence of gay people in public toilets has been there since the invention of public toilets and it's yet to become some widespread problem (rather, it hasn't been a problem at all). The presence of trans people is unlikely to add to this non-issue.

First you have to come up with an actual problem. Then you can bitch about how I deal with it.

I was? News to me. Perhaps you would like to quote every post I made in the thread then explain that conclusion.

Haha this reminds me of the time I was using the bathroom in a local casino and a woman walked in. She got all flustered and walked out. 10 seconds later she walked back in with a funny smile on her face. I had accidently pulled a Mat!

What's the evidence that this is an actual problem, as opposed to an imaginary one like massive voter fraud necessitating voter ID laws?

See, actual rapists can still go in any bathroom if they really want to regardless of laws.

Funny how all this hang-wringing about "no compromise" goes out the door when FoldN or Beale want to use the women's restroom. No consideration for people who might be extremely uncomfortable with their children being put into that position when these guys need to take a piss.

Another thing you guys seem to be discounting is peer pressure. Good thing this forum has such a diverse group of opinions

It was a single user rest room and I've been to numerous places that have two such and they just say 'rest room.' Just like 'family rest rooms' can be used by anyone.

Two things bother me: INSISTING that a trans teen use the RR of their gender identity even if it means curtains (which is segregating them nearly as much as a separate facility) and handing a hot button issue in an election year like this one to social conservatives on a silver platter. The down ballot R's must be celebrating.

BTW, is this an issue at adult gyms, at all? Does anybody know of an adult gym that accommodates trans persons desire to use the locker room of what would (in a vacuum) be considered the opposite sex?

You're just wrong. We already insist that non trans/intersex people use a bathroom that corresponds to their gender identity. Guidelines like curtains can be changed and are a seperate debate.Its not going to hand a bunch of down ballot races to the gop most people dont care.

They're both admitted sex offenders too. Id be way more afraid of a loved one encountering FoldN or Howard in a bathroom than of encountering the average trans person.

Howard, btw, is STILL not going to read the guidelines or the letter and will keep concern trolling, facts be damned. Like why does he keep insisting that students can't choose to instead use a private bathroom? It is explicitly allowed under the guidance if the student so chooses! Or why he is so offended by the solution of curtains segregating off a private area for any student that wants a more private changing area. This is probably a good idea even if there are no trans students in school.

You realize there is a spectrum of "bits" that are not exclusively female or male right? I guess we need to fight tooth and nail to avoid addressing this issue and pretend it doesn't exist!

howards cool, but he lives in a fantasy world on this issue.

Also of note, these guidelines are put together using examples of places already operating under the equivalent of federal guidelines. Massachusetts has had these sort of guidelines in place for four years yet we don't have parents storming the gates of public schools, we don't read news about trans related controversy in public schools, somehow schools are continuing to function on an orderly basis. So odd.

Like what exactly is offensive about this policy to Howard? He has a bunch of feels about how students shouldn't be forced to change with a trans teen but, uhhhh, the guidance explicitly says that its OK to address those concerns of other students in a way that doesn't stigmatize the trans student. So is this just about annoyance over any accomodations being made to trans students?

Again, the heart of this guidance is to say that trans students have a right to have their gender recognized by the school and that the school can't just say "tough ****, suck it up, some other students are uncomfortable" like some of our more simple minded posters would like to see allowed. Trans/intersex/gender non-conforming students have rights too.

Ah, the joys of trying to solve complex social issues politically.

It doesn't cost any money to advance social awareness that there's this issue. It does cost a lot tho to force everyone into a one size fits all solution.

Kind of off topic but just blogging for a moment:

Why does anybody care who shares a restroom with you? Like if there's an opportunity for someone to see you in an intimate way, you're comfortable with that as long as it's someone of your same gender? lol

Personally I don't really care if someone sneaks a peak at me at the urinal. But this would be true whether it's a guy or a girl or what. I don't get why anyone cares what gender it is, the fact that it's a room full of strangers seems like the important demographic.