It was a joke, I was reaching for someone who was anti-catholic to fit in with the theme. Nazi germany : Jews is like crusades : muslims is like X : catholics.

Can we get an OP containment thread/forum already

This is because you don't know what islamophobia is. You constantly bring it up in every thread. People aren't condemning moderate Muslims anywhere.

You have this agenda to defend any criticism of Islam in face of all the facts that are put right in front of you. If anything, you bringing up other people's Jewish backgrounds (or perceived ones) make we wonder about your honesty. Another person's background shouldn't make you view them as biased.

Just to expand on this a bit, specifically towards thekid345 : you really should rethink and read some more about your perceptions of people being bigoted towards *ideas* instead of people.

http://marcvelazquez.com/2010/06/18/...***s-on-islam/

Read that. Honestly read it and rethink whether people are really anti-muslim, or anti-bad-ideas. Think about the difference between racism/bigotry and the now well known story of Allen Ginsberg after the Salman Rushdie fatwah below.


Soon after news of the fatwa broke, Ginsberg and his assistant climbed into the back seat of a taxi in Manhattan. After a glance at the cab driver’s name, Ginsberg politely inquired if he was a Muslim. When the cabbie replied that he was, Ginsberg asked him what he thought about the death sentence on Rushdie. The cabbie answered that he thought that Rushdie’s book was disrespectful of Islam, and that the Ayatollah had every right to do what he had done. At this point, according to his assistant, Ginsberg, one of the gentlest men ever to walk the planet, flew into a rage, screaming at the cabbie as he continued to drive, “Then I **** on your religion! Do you hear me? I **** on Islam! I **** on Muhammad! Do you hear? I **** on Muhammad!” Ginsberg demanded that the cabbie pull over. The cabbie complied, and, without paying the fare, Ginsberg and his assistant climbed out. He was still screaming at the cabbie as the car drove off.

Do you see the difference? I'd bet you can't.

I'm goin to go with: "Your inability to think the way I do on one particular issue makes you a bad and stupid person, and people should all gang up on those people."

Try to guess if that kind of thing is limited to theists.

It is strange isn't it...

The many threads started by him "defending" Islam or shilling for despicable Arab regimes, his determined minimisation of Jewish suffering throughout their history in the Arab World (and before 1948) in his "Islam is a Religion of Peace" thread, his consistent habit of bringing up Jews at every opportunity, usually to imply some preferential treatment for posts about Jews/Judaism relative to Muslims/Islam...

And all this from a self-declared religious Catholic.

I have never once seen him change or significantly modify a single opinion - something that I consider basically impossible for any intelligent, open minded, non agenda driven regular reader of this forum.

Perhaps the most revealing post he has made, which many may have missed, was his last post in his "ISIS Threatens Christians in Mosul" thread, which he immediately abandoned after my reply to him. The discussion had turned to the First Crusade...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...3&postcount=88

(For a little background for those who aren't interested in reading yet another one of his ridiculous threads, I have copied part of my response to him:

"During the crusade, knights, peasants and serfs from many nations of Western Europe travelled over land and by sea, first to Constantinople and then on towards Jerusalem. The Crusaders arrived at Jerusalem, launched an assault on the city, and captured it in July 1099, massacring many of the city's Muslim, Christian, and Jewish inhabitants."

Wikipedia

Not to mention the brutal destruction of numerous Jewish communities in Europe before they even left...)

The irony of him giddily romanticising one religious war, in a thread he started, presumably to show his opposition to another religious war, is the most perfect example of his utter lack of self-awareness, logic and morality yet...

He probably should have paid for the fare.

This is clearly not true; there are plenty of people who lump all Muslims together.

As for the original question, while I agree that in principle all types of racism should be abhorred equally, if you know anything about the history of, oh say, the last couple of millennia, you might understand why antisemitism get condemned more.

OP brings Jewish people into every discussion in order to dismiss any criticism of Islam by equating it with antisemitism.

The line between race, culture and religion is somewhat blurred, so one should tread a little carefully, but like any religion, Islam is merely a belief system and so a fair subject for criticism.

I wonder what it would be like to get in a Jews face and demand that they answer questions about this and that, specifically about Rabbi Ovadia Yosefs positions on non Jews.

BTW Wil,

I distinctly remember talking with a cabbie while on a vacation, the cab driver was a Muslim from Ethiopia, and I got along well with the guy. The cab driver was an intelligent guy, who had positive views of the world, as opposed to the bigoted views that folks like you, Gamblor, Goater, and payoffwiz dish out.

A more pathetic version of the old "I have a black friend" argument... Nice.

What have I said that you think is bigoted, exactly? Or are you just calling people bigots because they disagree with you? (Or because they have exposed your disturbing flights of fancy?)

Want to address this?

thekid345: is the speaker in this video islamophobic?



Her name btw is Brigitte Gabriel, and she is a Christian from Lebanon.

I agree that the guy in the story is an idiot for getting into it.

I have seen a # of her videos. Its quite clear that Gabriel is Islamophobic.

If Gabriel is not Islamophobic, then guys like David Duke are not Antisemitic.

Just as Jews have a right to praise the Maccabees, I have a right to praise the crusaders.

Warfare of the middle ages was violent, often no quarter was given. The Maccabees were a group of respected Jews who fought in wars. But it was also said that the Maccabees killed folks(or forced them to convert to Judaism) without giving them the chance to surrender.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maccabees

You going to comment on the actions of the Maccabees, or is all you have the killing of innocent Jews and Muslims by Christians at the gates of Jerusalem in 1099?

The problem is that folks like Wil and Goater believe that the majority of the 1.7 billion Muslims worldwide are out to get us, or that the past Muslims treated Jews with disrespect. They are not just criticizing the religion of Islam, rather they are going after Muslims in general.

How dare you to hold such a bigoted views against the Jews?
It's not to late to redeem yourself,just admit Maccabee revolt didn't happened.

No, I don't believe something so ridiculous. Stop being dishonest.

That some past Muslims treated Jews "with disrespect" is completely non controversial and part of the historical record. I don't know of any historian - even those with strong anti Israel leanings - make his claim.

I will happily criticise Islam, Judaism and any other religion in the right discussion and I have.

If you want to make accusations and state what I believe, use direct quotes or stop. You are clearly deflecting as a childish defence mechanism - a characteristic of a tightly closed mind.

While I agree with Ginsberg's views and disagree with the cabbie's I hate his approach. It is so hostile and unhelpful and if his goal is to actually change people's minds and combat antisemitism he is achieving the opposite. The cabby didnt even bring up the topic, he was specifically asked. Even if he was a raging anti semite the proper response is to respond eloquently with facts and logic to try to try and persuade. Shouting and bullying is counterproductive and an ******* move. Also he should obviously pay the fair.

I don't get the big deal about thinking Muslims mistreated Jews in the past. Hardly anyone had ever treated minorities fairly and Muslims were no worse and mostly less bad than others.

As far as Jews feel in conflict with Muslims, it has absolutely nothing to do with the mistreatment of Jews hundreds or thousands of years ago.

My latest theory of thekid is that he's a kid. 19 years old tops.

And no Jew gives a damn what you say about the Maccabees.

I'll let you guys in on a secret. thekid's a troll. Replying to him to knock down ridiculous assertions is fine, but lol @ arguing with him.

I don't know how true this is. At least, from the "Muslim" (read: Middle Eastern Arab Muslim) perspective. I would think the phenomenon of Jews asserting their independence and self-determination - especially over the objections of Arabs - is something the Arab Middle East hasn't really to come to grips with. I think that informs a significant part of the historical rejectionist, intransigent and contemptuous policy towards Israel.