Voter ID laws have racist and even worse outcomes! - Page 6 - Politics version 7.0 -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

So, uh, affirmative action is good? Because you just called it racist, and we learned elsewhere in the thread that the only reason things get called racist is because you can't win the argument on the merits. Right?

04-03-2014 , 11:34 AM

#127

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty Lost

It changes a lot actually. The main theme of this thread is that requiring an ID to vote is racist because of who it affects. What I'm gathering from this thread is that it affects poor people not any particular race. Even the loosest definitions of racism don't fit here. Now I'm sure there are some David Duke type quotes you can pull out and justifiably point out racism but, I'm guessing that is an outlier. From a pure numbers perspective these laws affect far more white folks then any minority.

That said. I tend to agree that the way these laws are written and enforced do in fact disenfranchise many poor voters. While I agree the laws need to be changed I just think the way you guys go about arguing for change is silly.

Blacks are poor at a greater rate than whites. Blacks lack ID at a greater rate than whites.

04-03-2014 , 11:43 AM

#128

Liberty Lost

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Blacks are poor at a greater rate than whites. Blacks lack ID at a greater rate than whites.

As a percentage of the population, yes. I dont think the 6 million(made up number) white folks care that the 2 million(made up number) minorities make up a higher percentage per their race. Fact is these laws affect far more whites. So again. The racist angle is just silly.

04-03-2014 , 11:49 AM

#129

kurto

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,634

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerveza69

Actually, I wasn't joking. The left champions themselves as defenders against racism, and in the same breath champion a law or policy that systematically discriminates against a particular race. Two wrongs do not = a right. Period.

your understanding is right in line with what a caricature of an ignorant racist would be.

Quote:

As for the 'mocking" - who cares. It just demonstrates my earlier point that when you are losing an argument, the name calling starts. It just shows how weak minded folks react when their intellectual dishonesty is exposed.

Actually, that doesn't demonstrate at all what you say. If a someone says something really stupid and everyone laughs at it, that doesn't show that the stupid person is right. That's not remotely logical or how the world works.

The truth is that after people have engaged idiots like you who bring the same ignorance over and over again, at some point people just go straight to mocking. You're like silverman... he's demonstrated that even when people address his arguments, when they show he's wrong about things, he doesn't change. No one thinks that if they address people like you with well reasoned arguments and facts that you'll change. Its a waste of time. If you were really interested in the arguments of the other side they're easy to research. Because again... everything you say has been refuted multiple times in threads about this subject. You bring nothing new to the table. And we've all seen that when little racists like you show up, no amount of information is going to challenge your ignorance.

About the only fun to be had is the mocking.

04-03-2014 , 11:56 AM

#130

PokerIMO

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 558

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty Lost

In this case, percentage of the population is incredibly important; DUCY?

04-03-2014 , 11:56 AM

#131

kurto

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,634

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty Lost

Quote:

Even the loosest definitions of racism don't fit here. Now I'm sure there are some David Duke type quotes you can pull out and justifiably point out racism but, I'm guessing that is an outlier. From a pure numbers perspective these laws affect far more white folks then any minority.

That said. I tend to agree that the way these laws are written and enforced do in fact disenfranchise many poor voters. While I agree the laws need to be changed I just think the way you guys go about arguing for change is silly.

They don't happen to disenfranchise many poor voters, that is the point of them. and if you've followed this then you would know that several of the law makers have more or less admitted it. And they've admitted that they know that it mostly disenfranchises blacks... and as one Republican said when asked, "well, they vote for Obama."

Its only the willfully ignorant like Silverman and Cerveza who don't see this. Who are unaware that the people making these laws have this as their goal. Because they admit it. The justification of needing to stop fraud is just a pretense to the real goal. The annoying thing is seeing the people who are actually stupid enough to argue the 'pretense'... when everyone but them understands that its all a smokescreen.

04-03-2014 , 11:57 AM

#132

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty Lost

In PA, they promised that this law would allow Mitt Romney to win PA. Romney wins the poor whites demographic. Why would this law have any positive effect on Romney's chances in PA if poor whites were expected to bear the brunt of it?

And again, see above with repeated efforts to make it harder to vote in minority areas or in ways that specifically target minorities.

04-03-2014 , 11:58 AM

#133

kurto

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,634

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty Lost

As a percentage of the population, yes. I dont think the 6 million(made up number) white folks care that the 2 million(made up number) minorities make up a higher percentage per their race. Fact is these laws affect far more whites. So again. The racist angle is just silly.

Umm... no. this has been shown false over and over again. They already know that these laws affect poor blacks more. The whole point is its to throw a barrier to people who statistically favor Democrats. This is why when they were making laws like this, they were also reducing voting hours in poor districts and making them longer in districts that favored them. The whole point of the laws is to make it harder for the other side to vote.

04-03-2014 , 12:01 PM

#134

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

I, for one, am shocked that Cerveza would just ignore a lengthy, thoughtful post I made in response to him and just start spewing racist claptrap.

04-03-2014 , 12:07 PM

#135

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

I think his computer is broken, he still hasnt seen or responded to the post asking him to name the examples of Miami voter fraud that could have been stopped with better voter ID laws.

Surely he didnt make that up?

04-03-2014 , 12:14 PM

#136

Cerveza69

adept

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 786

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurto

your understanding is right in line with what a caricature of an ignorant racist would be.

Actually, that doesn't demonstrate at all what you say. If a someone says something really stupid and everyone laughs at it, that doesn't show that the stupid person is right. That's not remotely logical or how the world works.

The truth is that after people have engaged idiots like you who bring the same ignorance over and over again, at some point people just go straight to mocking. You're like silverman... he's demonstrated that even when people address his arguments, when they show he's wrong about things, he doesn't change. No one thinks that if they address people like you with well reasoned arguments and facts that you'll change. Its a waste of time. If you were really interested in the arguments of the other side they're easy to research. Because again... everything you say has been refuted multiple times in threads about this subject. You bring nothing new to the table. And we've all seen that when little racists like you show up, no amount of information is going to challenge your ignorance.

About the only fun to be had is the mocking.

Weak minded people like you mock, when they cannot compete intellectually.

04-03-2014 , 12:17 PM

#137

goofyballer

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Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Says the guy ignoring half the posts people direct at him cause he can't answer

loooooool cerveza

04-03-2014 , 12:18 PM

#138

kurto

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,634

For anyone who actually cares - an article about several Republicans admitting that the strategy is to suppress Dem. votes.

LINK
excerpt-

Quote:

After the election, former Florida GOP chairman Jim Greer told The Palm Beach Post that the explicit goal of the state’s voter-ID law was Democratic suppression. “The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told the Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only ... ‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,’” he said. Indeed, the Florida Republican Party imposed a host of policies, from longer ballots to fewer precincts in minority areas, meant to discourage voting. And it worked. According to one study, as many as 49,000 people were discouraged from voting in November 2012 as a result of long lines and other obstacles.

The articles lists more. Like I said, most people who aren't willfully ignorant and watch the news would be aware that there have been several Republicans who have all admitted that voter supression was the strategy and intent of these laws. (I believe a N. Carolina guy infamously admitted it on the Daily Show as well) Its been out there for a while. So any of the people trying to argue that its not racist by design either (1) don't actually know anything about the subject and what's been said (ergo - they're ignorant of the subject they're arguing about) or (2) they do know and are feigning ignorance or are just so either racist or partisan that they don't care.

04-03-2014 , 12:22 PM

#139

kurto

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 17,634

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerveza69

Weak minded people like you mock, when they cannot compete intellectually.

its cute that you think you are competing intellectually. People are already laughing because its clear you just ignore posts that show how wrong you are.

At least in your mind you're beating everyone intellectually. Meanwhile, you just keep ignoring all the posts where people try to address you with content.

All you have is the belief in your mind that people are calling you an idiot because they're so below you. All you focus on is that people point out you're a racist. Because you aren't competing on the strength of your ideas.

Hee hee... MSNBC is bad! Affirmative Action shows that whites are the real victims!

Yes... we can't compete with your towering intellect. Keep telling yourself that buddy.

04-03-2014 , 12:28 PM

#140

Cerveza69

adept

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 786

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

? We've already proved that the level of vote fraud that would be cured by ID laws is negligible.

This has NOT been proven at all. If you just keep saying it over and over again, doesn't mean it has been proven.

Yet not a single ID law anywhere in the country considers these things despite the fact that they are obvious. Why should we expect that their intentions are benign despite the fact that the laws are specifically being made in a way that is more onerous to poor minorities than it has to be in order to accomplish its stated intent?

Have you read all of the laws? I doubt it. The laws are different in every jurisdiction. Blanket statements like this are irresponsible.

No legislature writing these laws has any interest in this, Indeed, as more states pass these laws, they're becoming increasingly restrictive, not permissive, in what forms of ID they will find acceptable.

If this is correct, then it should be changed

The same people writing these laws are also closing DMVs in minority neighborhoods to make it harder to get ID, removing polling places in minority neighborhoods, reducing poll hours, reducing the number of days polls are open, specifically closing polls on days on which minorities like to vote, and they are making it harder to register to vote. These provisions are often written into the same law as the one requiring ID.

[I]Again, where is your proof of this. If so, this is not right, and not something I agree with. I am always in favor of making it easier to vote, if it is possible to limit voter fraud.[/I]

There is no explanation other than the exclusion of racial minorities that explains why the laws were written as they are.

Don't be so close minded. There are other explanations, you simply disagree with them.

See above

04-03-2014 , 12:40 PM

#141

Liberty Lost

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurto

??? Are you actually pretending to be ignorant of the racial disparity in the poor? Its no secret that the reason these laws were struck down repeatedly in the past is because they disproportionately harmed minorities.

If a law is set up that inhibits the ability of 100,000 from voting, and 90% of them are minorities... the fact that 10% of the people hurt are poor white people does not mean its not racist.

They don't happen to disenfranchise many poor voters, that is the point of them. and if you've followed this then you would know that several of the law makers have more or less admitted it. And they've admitted that they know that it mostly disenfranchises blacks... and as one Republican said when asked, "well, they vote for Obama."

Its only the willfully ignorant like Silverman and Cerveza who don't see this. Who are unaware that the people making these laws have this as their goal. Because they admit it. The justification of needing to stop fraud is just a pretense to the real goal. The annoying thing is seeing the people who are actually stupid enough to argue the 'pretense'... when everyone but them understands that its all a smokescreen.

Again for the third time. I could care less about a how this affects paticular races as a percentage of the population. Fact. There are more poor white folks than any minority, period. These laws affect more white folks than any minority, period. There is no arguing against that. Making this about race is just dumb beyond comprehension. I mean it is almost as if you just want to brush off the poor white folks being disenfranchised as not being a big deal.

Now if you want to start talking about how some folks want to keep the poor down then we can start cooking with gasoline.

04-03-2014 , 12:44 PM

#142

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

This has NOT been proven at all. If you just keep saying it over and over again, doesn't mean it has been proven.

Then prove me wrong. Surely you can find examples of wide spread vote fraud that would be stopped by IDs.

Quote:

Have you read all of the laws? I doubt it. The laws are different in every jurisdiction. Blanket statements like this are irresponsible.

There actually aren't many differences between the laws in different states. They're being drafted by a single conservative think tank.

Quote:

If this is correct, then it should be changed

No one passing the legislation wants to change it!

Quote:

Again, where is your proof of this. If so, this is not right, and not something I agree with. I am always in favor of making it easier to vote, if it is possible to limit voter fraud.

See above for the example in FL. Out of the lawmakers' own mouths, they were closing minority precincts and reducing voting hours to discourage minorities.

Quote:

Don't be so close minded. There are other explanations, you simply disagree with them.

So far, you've offered nothing, while we have the words of the lawmakers who made these laws that they passed them specifically to reduce minority turnout.

04-03-2014 , 12:44 PM

#143

Silver_Man2

banned

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 3,329

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurto

We could point out quotes by people in the republican party who are creating these laws outright admitting the point is to stop certain demographics from voting.

Even if their motivations for voter ID laws is based in racism (hell they could publicly say it), it is still 100% reasonable to have to present a simple ID to vote.

You people act like obtaining an ID card takes an act of God for blacks and hispanics.

Like whites are at some superior advantage for being able to get a stupid ID card.

04-03-2014 , 12:47 PM

#144

lonely_but_rich

ɔarpal \ʇunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24,110

Time to walk away, Silver_Man

04-03-2014 , 12:52 PM

#145

Silver_Man2

banned

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 3,329

Where was the thread about CVS being racist when they had a policy that you had to show an ID to purchase nail polish remover?

What about being able to adopt a pet? No thread on it being racist that you have to present an ID to adopt a pet? Why not? Who are the racist mother****ers who put that policy in place? I mean, there are probably more people of all races who like dogs than people who actually vote. Where is the uproar over the fact that a higher % of whites are able to adopt pets? Minorities love animals too, right?

04-03-2014 , 12:54 PM

#146

Cerveza69

adept

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 786

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurto

In my mind you're beating everyone intellectually.

People are calling you an idiot because they're so below you. People are calling you a racist, because they aren't competing with the strength of your ideas.

MSNBC is bad and is destroying the minds of liberal lemmings.

Affirmative Action shows that whites are the real victims!

Yes... we can't compete with your towering intellect.

Ok Kurto.. if you say so!

04-03-2014 , 01:05 PM

#147

lonely_but_rich

ɔarpal \ʇunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 24,110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Man2

You're either saying voter fraud is a real thing like children getting high on nail polish remover is a real thing or you don't understand the argument.

04-03-2014 , 01:06 PM

#148

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Man2

Even if their motivations for voter ID laws is based in racism (hell they could publicly say it), it is still 100% reasonable to have to present a simple ID to vote.

Silverwastedmembershipofluckyspermclub suddenly deciding motivation doesnt matter?

Didnt we just read months of "OMG, who cares what the government is doing, their motiviation is bad and thats all that matters"

04-03-2014 , 01:08 PM

#149

LetsGambool

banned

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 26,568

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver_Man2

Its almost like a private actor selling nail polish and running pet adoptions is different from the state deliberately impeding on a fundamental right in order to suppress minority voters that favor the opposing party

04-03-2014 , 01:30 PM

#150

omnishakira

High Troller

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 9,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie

Look! A racist post!

Spoiler:

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PU in 1 single post

congrats, you truly deserve your mod title

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