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Old 03-20-2017, 04:50 PM   #1
spewmachine
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socialism has never worked?

this video claims it could/had/whatever

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Old 03-20-2017, 09:00 PM   #2
GBV
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spewmachine View Post
this video claims it could/had/whatever
You do know you are using the product of a utopian socialist experiment in the collectivization of communication (the internet).
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:03 PM   #3
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Many of the people who claim "socialism has never worked" are talking about cronyist socialisms only, not the democratic socialisms like Canada that have been very successful. In short they're conflating two different things:

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Old 03-20-2017, 10:19 PM   #4
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Re: socialism has never worked?

A purely Socialist state would be quite undesirable, just as a purely Capitalist one would. Social benefits and Capital should be one and the same, like Ying and Yang. I think a free market with private means of production and a heavy tax on landownership (since more of it cannot be produced) along with Universal Healthcare and a non-inflationary level of basic income would make for an ideal Civil system. We could call such a system Social Capitalism.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:56 PM   #5
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Alot of Americans cant tell the difference between living in a socialist country and having socialist polices which is quite worrying.
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:44 PM   #6
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Re: socialism has never worked?

A socialist country as a political system can never ever work.

Socialist policies with respects to safety nets in a capitalist country do work and work quite well in all advanced economies.

There's a difference.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:58 AM   #7
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Re: socialism has never worked?

well democratic socialism is a completly diffrent story. The problem is that capitalism is very good at avoiding regulation and dictating the politics how the state should be run. and since the globalisation with the end of the cold war this tendency became much more stronger.

here the diffrence between capitalism and socialism

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Old 03-21-2017, 08:43 PM   #8
Deuces McKracken
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Norway was just ranked as the happiest country. Theorizing is fun, but let's not forget we have current existing examples of governments facilitating the outcomes we want. We can just copy them. It's easy. First step is you start manufacturing guillotines...
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:53 AM   #9
Marco Fernandez
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Socialism worked in the USSR for 70 years. Although perhaps it was a hybrid of socialism with a strong state. The economy was directive and private property was practically abolished.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:25 AM   #10
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Re: socialism has never worked?

You should do it like Bernie, keep switching goal posts while each of his poster socialist/communist country fails! First love communist USSR, get married there, and believe all the propaganda.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...viet-honeymoon

Once they go down switch to Venezuela. "Bernie Sanders Praised Socialist Venezuela as Model for Ending Income Inequality". If everyone is eating zoo animals to keep hunger away, what is the actual state of the socialist Venezuela today, I guess you can call that the ending of income inequality. Elites make big bucks tho, but they are just a little bit more equal than others.

http://www.libertynewsdaily.com/blog...ome-inequality

As an idealist Bernie is unwilling to change his views, even though his ideas have no merit to believe in them as we have seen in the real world, so he just keeps moving goalposts, now is it Scandinavia, Canada or Cuba?
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:31 AM   #11
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spewmachine View Post
well democratic socialism is a completly diffrent story. The problem is that capitalism is very good at avoiding regulation and dictating the politics how the state should be run. and since the globalisation with the end of the cold war this tendency became much more stronger.

here the diffrence between capitalism and socialism
Capitalism doesn't dictate how the government is run.

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Old 03-22-2017, 07:48 AM   #12
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Awful lot of youtube in here.

I have watched the Is Capitalism Moral? video before though. Lol "voluntary".
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:50 AM   #13
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Here is my utoobz response to the "it's all voluntary" debate.

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Old 03-22-2017, 07:56 AM   #14
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesman87 View Post
Awful lot of youtube in here.

I have watched the Is Capitalism Moral? video before though. Lol "voluntary".
"Capitalism is voluntary sex"

You willingly give something for something, forced altruism.

"Socialism is rape"

Your stuff is taken by force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l29kgupzXKE
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:29 AM   #15
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Just mark it on the line between fear and love.
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Old 03-22-2017, 11:58 AM   #16
spewmachine
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kypreanus View Post
"Capitalism is voluntary sex"

You willingly give something for something, forced altruism.

"Socialism is rape"

Your stuff is taken by force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l29kgupzXKE

not "your" stuff. just the stuff of the very rich. for me its pretty obvious that with every day passing the people believing in the free market become fewer.

The US voting for a madman like Trump tells the whole story, they are desperate because capitalism stopped working for them, and cant figure out the proper reasons (they are just US-citizens, what can you expect? ).

I think not only a regimechange is nessary, but a whole new theorey about property and economics.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:09 PM   #17
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Re: socialism has never worked?

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Originally Posted by spewmachine View Post
not "your" stuff. just the stuff of the very rich.
There is no possible way to run a socialist country by only taking from the very rich. They don't have enough to support the system. The fact is that they have to take from the middle class as well. And they take it from them in spades.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...t-you-wish-for

I'm sure you'll say that the NYT is a right-wing paper and should be banned on this forum.


Sweden’s top marginal tax rate of 56.9 percent applies to all income over 1.5 times the average income in Sweden.
Norway’s top marginal tax rate of 39 percent applies to all income over 1.6 times the average Norwegian income.

The US top marginal tax rate of 46.8 percent kicks in at 8.5 times the average U.S. income.

So the capitalist country is the only one actually doing what you want... taxing the rich more than everyone else.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:42 PM   #18
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Re: socialism has never worked?

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Sweden’s top marginal tax rate of 56.9 percent applies to all income over 1.5 times the average income in Sweden.
Norway’s top marginal tax rate of 39 percent applies to all income over 1.6 times the average Norwegian income.

The US top marginal tax rate of 46.8 percent kicks in at 8.5 times the average U.S. income.

So the capitalist country is the only one actually doing what you want... taxing the rich more than everyone else.
Sounds just awful. I wonder how the Norwegian's feel about this abomination.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39325206
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:44 PM   #19
spewmachine
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Quote:
Danish university students have their tuition paid for them by the state. But there is no choice between public and private institutions.
that seems like a ridicioulus argument though. 90% of students would choose free education over private education without a second thought.

And instead of looking at the taxes look at the income as well. there are alot jobs in the US that pay you a laughable wage, not so in the scandinavian countrys.
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:52 PM   #20
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Re: socialism has never worked?



Quote:
Even liberal policy commenters are skeptical of Senator Sanders’s proposed changes to the taxation of capital gains. Many cite a paper by David Kamin that suggests the revenue-maximizing rate on capital gains is between 28 and 32 percent. In other words, if Congress raised the tax rate on capital gains above the current level, individuals would realize their investments less frequently, and the federal government would actually start to lose revenue.
It wouldn't take long after Sanders had applied his policies, that the economy would collapse after businesses closing and assets moving overseas.

Then you would have Venezuelan kind of poverty where people would hunt wild and zoo game to keep them alive.

Sandels is an idealist, where real world results don't matter as much or total taxation revenue as criticized by his peers, not that the reality mattered to him when he supported Soviet Union.

https://taxfoundation.org/sanders-ta...veloped-world/
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:53 PM   #21
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spewmachine View Post
that seems like a ridicioulus argument though. 90% of students would choose free education over private education without a second thought.

And instead of looking at the taxes look at the income as well. there are alot jobs in the US that pay you a laughable wage, not so in the scandinavian countrys.
Sure it's great in a Scandinavian country getting paid 22 an hour, factor in 50%+ of it to taxes though and what are you really making?
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Old 03-22-2017, 12:56 PM   #22
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Re: socialism has never worked?

And then you have universal health care, universal college paid for, you don't have to worry about going bankrupt and losing your house because of one medical emergency, you don't have to worry about not being able to go to the doctor if you lose your job, it's just less stress and a better life for everybody. Not to mention way more paid vacation, sick days, and paid family leave.

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Old 03-22-2017, 12:57 PM   #23
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Re: socialism has never worked?

Plus that's not how marginal tax rates work anyway. Look up marginal tax rates.

Quote:
BREAKING DOWN 'Marginal Tax Rate'

Under a marginal tax rate, tax payers are most often divided into tax brackets or ranges, which determine the rate applied to the taxable income of the tax filer. As income increases, what is earned will be taxed at a higher rate than the first dollar earned. While many believe this is the most equitable method of taxation, many others believe this discourages business investment by removing the incentive to work harder.

Read more: Marginal Tax Rate Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/...#ixzz4c4hPmCJW
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:24 PM   #24
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Re: socialism has never worked?

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Originally Posted by Bladesman87 View Post
Sounds just awful. I wonder how the Norwegian's feel about this abomination.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39325206
You're moving the goal posts. I'm not saying it's bad or that they're suffering. I'm just saying it's wrong to claim they only take from the very rich.
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Old 03-22-2017, 01:45 PM   #25
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Re: socialism has never worked?

I never set any goal posts.
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